3 ms·

I'm borderline incredulous at your interpretation ... were you around in 2008? Do you not remember bailing out the banks? Emergency stimuli to keep the econom

I'm borderline incredulous at your interpretation ... were you around in 2008? Do you not remember bailing out the banks? Emergency stimuli to keep the economy going from recession to depression? Decreasing tax revenue as the economy entered recession? And yet, you say Brown was too left wing to slam on the brakes on government spending? ... we would be finished as a nation if you were in charge. It's just me and you. I'm sure no one else is reading this. So I'll just say. I'm quite confident you have no idea what you're talking about. Either you were too young at the time, no idea how the economy works (especially during a crisis) or ... let's leave it at that.

revelio 3y ago
Of course I remember these things, I was an adult at the time. You're maybe willfully misinterpreting my point. It doesn't matter why Brown spent so much money. What matters is that after he did so nobody in the Labour hierarchy adjusted to the new reality that they'd spent all the money, and they'd need to implement austerity via large budget cuts to try and reduce the suddenly massive deficit. The Conservatives did realize that, did make that argument, and the voters agreed with them. Which is the point I've been making all along. BTW it's very rich that in a thread where I'm having to remind people about the issues in an election that only happened 13 years ago, you're claiming I'm too young to remember what happened at the time! The economy, Labour's claims to be competent at it "we have ended boom and bust" etc followed by their Labour's inability to seem serious about the deficit remained an issue for years. Don't you recall Miliband's doomed notes-free speech and his subsequent political exile? That was in 2014. Even years after losing to the coalition, they still didn't want to talk about cutting public sector spending and voters reacted accordingly: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/24/ed-miliband-forgets-labour-conference-speech https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/24/ed-miliband... There's an analysis by Labour supporters here: https://labourlist.org/2010/05/why-labour-lost/ https://labourlist.org/2010/05/why-labour-lost/ "People stopped trusting the party and they didn’t believe what it said about foreign wars, the state of the economy, reform of Parliament and public spending"
- Lolaccount 3y ago
  I entered this thread with a chart that presents data. I'm not interested in the politics of why the voters voted they way they did. And your assertions on that are like picking a few leaves off a tree and saying that they are the reason the tree grows. Your contention was that "Brown was too left wing to slam on the spending brakes". My contention is that the chart I posted would have looked largely the same whichever party was in power. The only difference would have been the degree and speed of action. And it was this that Conservatives got wrong and which I think that Brown would have done better with. He wasn't a good PM, but he knew what mattered on the economy. And you can run a clear line from the decisions that were made by the Conservatives at the time to where we are today. The mistakes made (David Cameron with Brexit, Austerity, and now political corruption and malaise) have effectively ruined the potential of Britain for decades to come. I'm not here to defend Brown, but I do understand the position he was in. Anything else is political garbage.
  - revelio 3y ago
    But this thread and my entry to it started with this statement by someone else: >> I never understood why Miliband didn't win the 2015 election. And so this thread is an attempt to explain that, by reference to Labour's legacy of not being willing to reduce public spending. >> My contention is that the chart I posted would have looked largely the same whichever party was in power. It might have done, but Brown didn't argue that. In the leadup to 2010 he argued that he would simply not increase it further, in contrast to the "savage cuts" planned by the Tories.
    - Lolaccount 3y ago
      I specified which section of your comment I objected to. You were welcome to ignore it or focus on it. Brown just wasn't charismatic and he made some critical political timing errors. You can have one but you can't have both and he deserved to lose the election. With the economy, however, he played a blinder and it's under-appreciated. The subsequent clowns have proven that. Brown's mistake was his desire to be PM.

revelio 3y ago

Of course I remember these things, I was an adult at the time. You're maybe willfully misinterpreting my point. It doesn't matter why Brown spent so much money. What matters is that after he did so nobody in the Labour hierarchy adjusted to the new reality that they'd spent all the money, and they'd need to implement austerity via large budget cuts to try and reduce the suddenly massive deficit. The Conservatives did realize that, did make that argument, and the voters agreed with them. Which is the point I've been making all along. BTW it's very rich that in a thread where I'm having to remind people about the issues in an election that only happened 13 years ago, you're claiming I'm too young to remember what happened at the time! The economy, Labour's claims to be competent at it "we have ended boom and bust" etc followed by their Labour's inability to seem serious about the deficit remained an issue for years. Don't you recall Miliband's doomed notes-free speech and his subsequent political exile? That was in 2014. Even years after losing to the coalition, they still didn't want to talk about cutting public sector spending and voters reacted accordingly: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/24/ed-miliband-forgets-labour-conference-speech https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/24/ed-miliband... There's an analysis by Labour supporters here: https://labourlist.org/2010/05/why-labour-lost/ https://labourlist.org/2010/05/why-labour-lost/ "People stopped trusting the party and they didn’t believe what it said about foreign wars, the state of the economy, reform of Parliament and public spending"

Lolaccount 3y ago
I entered this thread with a chart that presents data. I'm not interested in the politics of why the voters voted they way they did. And your assertions on that are like picking a few leaves off a tree and saying that they are the reason the tree grows. Your contention was that "Brown was too left wing to slam on the spending brakes". My contention is that the chart I posted would have looked largely the same whichever party was in power. The only difference would have been the degree and speed of action. And it was this that Conservatives got wrong and which I think that Brown would have done better with. He wasn't a good PM, but he knew what mattered on the economy. And you can run a clear line from the decisions that were made by the Conservatives at the time to where we are today. The mistakes made (David Cameron with Brexit, Austerity, and now political corruption and malaise) have effectively ruined the potential of Britain for decades to come. I'm not here to defend Brown, but I do understand the position he was in. Anything else is political garbage.
- revelio 3y ago
  But this thread and my entry to it started with this statement by someone else: >> I never understood why Miliband didn't win the 2015 election. And so this thread is an attempt to explain that, by reference to Labour's legacy of not being willing to reduce public spending. >> My contention is that the chart I posted would have looked largely the same whichever party was in power. It might have done, but Brown didn't argue that. In the leadup to 2010 he argued that he would simply not increase it further, in contrast to the "savage cuts" planned by the Tories.
  - Lolaccount 3y ago
    I specified which section of your comment I objected to. You were welcome to ignore it or focus on it. Brown just wasn't charismatic and he made some critical political timing errors. You can have one but you can't have both and he deserved to lose the election. With the economy, however, he played a blinder and it's under-appreciated. The subsequent clowns have proven that. Brown's mistake was his desire to be PM.