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> the dictionary translation of words does not capture somewhat-subtle but sometimes important distinctions between words Good point. I have yet to see a dicti

by ethbr0 4y ago

> the dictionary translation of words does not capture somewhat-subtle but sometimes important distinctions between words Good point. I have yet to see a dictionary that also provides delineation with similar-but-different words and describes the differences. That'd be very useful for language learners, as colloquial use often eschews definition in favor of socially common convention. I.e. "That word does mean that, but you would never use it in that way"

bcbrown 4y ago
I'm not certain that this is exactly what you're talking about, but one of my dictionaries (Webster's New International, 1916) includes this under the entry for Authentic, which brings me great joy: Authentic, Genuine. The prevailing sense of authentic is authoritative, trustworthy, with the implication of accordance with fact; as "confirmed both by legend and authentic record" (Froude); "assurances more or less authentic" (Wordsworth); an authentic portrait. The prevailing sense of Genuine is native, real, true (see Real), often with the implication of descent from, or correspondence to, an original source or stock; as, a genuine merino, genuine piety; "true simplicity and genuine pathos" (Wordsworth); cf (colloq.) "the genuine article" with "the real thing." Both terms are used - genuine more frequently than authentic - as opposed to spurious, counterfeit, apocryphal; as "Let them contrast their own fantastical personages ... with the authentic rustics of Burns" (Jeffrey); "What is genuine knowledge and what is its counterfeit" (J.H. Newman). The 18th century distinction between the two terms, as applied to documents - "A genuine book is that which was written by the person whose name it bears as the author of it; an authentic book is that which relates matters of fact as they really happened" (Bp. Watson) - while still often observed, is becoming obliterated in present usage; as "The criticism which thus so freely diminishes the numer of his [Giorgione's] authentic works" (W. Pater); "Some collectors frankly take the ground that they buy what pleases them, and that age and authenticity are minor considerations" (The Nation). See Real, Correct.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Wow! I'd be fascinated how many person-hours went into that entry. On the whole, Wikipedia et al. are improvements in comprehensiveness and timeliness, but god damn do the gems of prior methods still shine brightly.
  - bcbrown 4y ago
    Webster's first dictionary was a one-man project and took 26 years. He learned 28 languages in order to research the etymologies. This New International is my favorite of the handful I own. I learned about it from https://jsomers.net/blog/dictionary https://jsomers.net/blog/dictionary, which I learned about here, on HN. I just re-submitted it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35635876 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35635876 Here's one more entry, on synonyms of Intention: Intention, Intent, Purpose, Design, Aim, Object, End are here compared in their general senses; for technical definitions, see defs. Intention, which often suggests little more than what one means or proposes to do, implies less settled determination than Purpose, less definite plan or prearrangment than Design, which frequently adds the implication of crafty or artful scheming; as "She had not had an intention or a thought of going home, until she had announced it to him as a settled design" (Dickens); his intentions are good; cf. to declare one's intentions; "My purpose holds to sail beyond the sunset, and the baths of all the western stars, until I die" (Tennyson); "I go amongst the buildings of a city and I see a man hurrying along - to what? The creature has a purpose and his eyes are bright with it" (Keats); "envious commands, invented design to keep them low" (Milton); "Should he find me here, [he] would discover my name, and perhaps my designs, to the rest of the family" (Goldsmith); cf. "designing lovers" (id.). Intent is chiefly legal or poetical; as, intent to deceive, kill; "the power of a sublime intent" (Shelley). Aim emphasizes directness of purpose, Object that on which activities are focused, End that towards which they tend as their consequence or final cause; as, "to [his trust] keeps faithful with a singleness of aim" (Wordsworth); "her steadiness and courage in the pursuit of her aims" (J.R. Green); "Yet in the task of luxury of freedom I began to wish for the daily task, the active pursuit, which gave a value to every book, and an object to every inquiry" (Gibbon); the object of education, a man without an object in life; "I see in part that all, as in some piece of art, is toil cooperant to an end" (Tennyson); "Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever" (Westminster Catechism). See Cause, Effect, Plan, Voluntary. You may also be interested in Garner's Modern American Usage. David Foster Wallace, in reviewing this book for Harper's, wrote "He's both a lawyer and a lexicographer (which seems a bit like being both a narcotics dealer and a DEA agent)".
yencabulator 3y ago
Yes, and figuring out the differences is sometimes a challenge for English-as-second-language people. Finnish uses one word for both foot and leg, and if you want to say foot you say "leg table" (the horizontal part of the leg). Similar with hand/arm. In the other direction, Finnish has separate words for the front and back of your neck (and I don't mean just throat). If I kick my foot on a rock, I may say something out loud about hurting my leg. That doesn't sound right to native speaker.

by ethbr0 4y ago

bcbrown 4y ago

I'm not certain that this is exactly what you're talking about, but one of my dictionaries (Webster's New International, 1916) includes this under the entry for Authentic, which brings me great joy: Authentic, Genuine. The prevailing sense of authentic is authoritative, trustworthy, with the implication of accordance with fact; as "confirmed both by legend and authentic record" (Froude); "assurances more or less authentic" (Wordsworth); an authentic portrait. The prevailing sense of Genuine is native, real, true (see Real), often with the implication of descent from, or correspondence to, an original source or stock; as, a genuine merino, genuine piety; "true simplicity and genuine pathos" (Wordsworth); cf (colloq.) "the genuine article" with "the real thing." Both terms are used - genuine more frequently than authentic - as opposed to spurious, counterfeit, apocryphal; as "Let them contrast their own fantastical personages ... with the authentic rustics of Burns" (Jeffrey); "What is genuine knowledge and what is its counterfeit" (J.H. Newman). The 18th century distinction between the two terms, as applied to documents - "A genuine book is that which was written by the person whose name it bears as the author of it; an authentic book is that which relates matters of fact as they really happened" (Bp. Watson) - while still often observed, is becoming obliterated in present usage; as "The criticism which thus so freely diminishes the numer of his [Giorgione's] authentic works" (W. Pater); "Some collectors frankly take the ground that they buy what pleases them, and that age and authenticity are minor considerations" (The Nation). See Real, Correct.

ethbr0 4y ago
Wow! I'd be fascinated how many person-hours went into that entry. On the whole, Wikipedia et al. are improvements in comprehensiveness and timeliness, but god damn do the gems of prior methods still shine brightly.
- bcbrown 4y ago
  Webster's first dictionary was a one-man project and took 26 years. He learned 28 languages in order to research the etymologies. This New International is my favorite of the handful I own. I learned about it from https://jsomers.net/blog/dictionary https://jsomers.net/blog/dictionary, which I learned about here, on HN. I just re-submitted it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35635876 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35635876 Here's one more entry, on synonyms of Intention: Intention, Intent, Purpose, Design, Aim, Object, End are here compared in their general senses; for technical definitions, see defs. Intention, which often suggests little more than what one means or proposes to do, implies less settled determination than Purpose, less definite plan or prearrangment than Design, which frequently adds the implication of crafty or artful scheming; as "She had not had an intention or a thought of going home, until she had announced it to him as a settled design" (Dickens); his intentions are good; cf. to declare one's intentions; "My purpose holds to sail beyond the sunset, and the baths of all the western stars, until I die" (Tennyson); "I go amongst the buildings of a city and I see a man hurrying along - to what? The creature has a purpose and his eyes are bright with it" (Keats); "envious commands, invented design to keep them low" (Milton); "Should he find me here, [he] would discover my name, and perhaps my designs, to the rest of the family" (Goldsmith); cf. "designing lovers" (id.). Intent is chiefly legal or poetical; as, intent to deceive, kill; "the power of a sublime intent" (Shelley). Aim emphasizes directness of purpose, Object that on which activities are focused, End that towards which they tend as their consequence or final cause; as, "to [his trust] keeps faithful with a singleness of aim" (Wordsworth); "her steadiness and courage in the pursuit of her aims" (J.R. Green); "Yet in the task of luxury of freedom I began to wish for the daily task, the active pursuit, which gave a value to every book, and an object to every inquiry" (Gibbon); the object of education, a man without an object in life; "I see in part that all, as in some piece of art, is toil cooperant to an end" (Tennyson); "Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever" (Westminster Catechism). See Cause, Effect, Plan, Voluntary. You may also be interested in Garner's Modern American Usage. David Foster Wallace, in reviewing this book for Harper's, wrote "He's both a lawyer and a lexicographer (which seems a bit like being both a narcotics dealer and a DEA agent)".

yencabulator 3y ago

Yes, and figuring out the differences is sometimes a challenge for English-as-second-language people. Finnish uses one word for both foot and leg, and if you want to say foot you say "leg table" (the horizontal part of the leg). Similar with hand/arm. In the other direction, Finnish has separate words for the front and back of your neck (and I don't mean just throat). If I kick my foot on a rock, I may say something out loud about hurting my leg. That doesn't sound right to native speaker.