6 ms·

Someday, in the far, far 90s, we had LAN. And everything worked. Now, you need 5Mbit speeds just to collaborate. Funny how the tech "progressed".

_xivi 3y ago
Too bad you can't use LAN to work from home
- qtzfz 3y ago
  You use VPNs with more or less the same result.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  Well, every WAN is a LAN when looked from a sufficient distance. DSL & Cable encapsulates Ethernet. City-wide networks are again Ethernet. In fact, everything is Ethernet with some routers between. So, you're actually using a mixed-carrier Enthernet LAN with a couple of NATs in the way. You can build another LAN on your LAN with VPN, too.
  - _xivi 3y ago
    I know you can use ethernet to build a network but if you build a global network with 90s technology, you'll get what?... the internet like we know today but worse. What problem was solved? That was my point responding to OP. We actually progressed and we are facing new challenges.
    - bayindirh 3y ago
      We're still using 90s technology. We only have faster switches, quicker routers, a couple of standards for faster connections, and some tools which disguise or repurpose deep packet inspection as "software defined networking". A country wide router still can stay in service for a decade. Residential FTTx installations consist of a TelCo class switch, maybe a router, compact DSLAMs if you have DSL service and a couple of fibers in, tens of fibers out for FTTH customers. It's faster hardware on the same stack. Nothing more, nothing less. ...and, oh, link-speed (transparent) DPI equipment in key places for lawful interception.
      - blowski 3y ago
        It's electrified rocks all the way down.
      - MichaelZuo 3y ago
        Theoretically, if an entire major city's connection with the outside world was cut off, could all the infrastructure within the city function as a really big city-wide LAN?
        bayindirh 3y ago
        Yes. You might need a dhcpd on a laptop though, if your city's IP management is outside the said city (Cable/DSL modems needs their own IPs, unless they are static). ...and possibly a small DNS server (or a hosts file somewhere easy to get). That's all you need. If you want to navigate via IPs only, you can do with a DHCPd.
- cesarb 3y ago
  > Too bad you can't use LAN to work from home Depends on what you consider "work from home". You might not be able to chat with your co-workers without a WAN connection (unless you go really old-school and use a telephone), but you can for instance develop software from home without any working network connection (and git makes it easier by allowing you to create commits while offline; see also the "git bundle" subcommand). I've done so occasionally when the Internet connection goes kaputt.
  - _xivi 3y ago
    That's kinda my point replying to OP. We've indeed progressed. I'm not sure if you are denying that?
nicce 3y ago
Now you need 5Mbit speeds so that your Windows' boot time is not slowed down.
9dev 3y ago
In other news, old man yells at cloud. You conveniently ignore the changed reality: since the 90ies, the number of active internet users, malware, services, goods sold, and customer expectations have skyrocketed. What you have in stock is nostalgia, my friend. Everything worked? Like Windows 95 crashing if you looked at it sideways, Linux requiring you to compile drivers for pretty much any device yourself, like fifteen competing printer protocols all incompatible with each other? You might want to get a reality check :)
- JaimeThompson 3y ago
  >Linux requiring you to compile drivers for pretty much any device yourself It's not much better on modern Fedora. The drivers do come precompiled but you have to reboot sometimes twice per week to install updates.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    Nothing forces you to reboot it twice per week.
    - worthless-trash 3y ago
      Agree, they deliver updates and fixes, its good to have the option.
  - phkahler 3y ago
    I rarely do updates and don't get notifications for them. Windows OTOH will demand I update, or decide to when I don't want it to.
- radiospiel 3y ago
  so young man yells at old man yelling at cloud? TBF, software in the past handled fluctuating connectivity much much better than todays, probably because back then this was normal. Once you got a thing working (a printer driver, say) it typically worked. Today, with spotty internet, software you have or could have on your device might or might not work. Just recently I have seen a website which loaded, but was non-functional until 2 mins later a cookie warning was also loaded. Nothing in there is about > the number of active internet users, malware, services, goods sold but about not building for applications only loading half (because we are still waiting for some obscure JS or CSS from not the original domain that noone really never needs.)

_xivi 3y ago

Too bad you can't use LAN to work from home

qtzfz 3y ago
You use VPNs with more or less the same result.
bayindirh 3y ago
Well, every WAN is a LAN when looked from a sufficient distance. DSL & Cable encapsulates Ethernet. City-wide networks are again Ethernet. In fact, everything is Ethernet with some routers between. So, you're actually using a mixed-carrier Enthernet LAN with a couple of NATs in the way. You can build another LAN on your LAN with VPN, too.
- _xivi 3y ago
  I know you can use ethernet to build a network but if you build a global network with 90s technology, you'll get what?... the internet like we know today but worse. What problem was solved? That was my point responding to OP. We actually progressed and we are facing new challenges.
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    We're still using 90s technology. We only have faster switches, quicker routers, a couple of standards for faster connections, and some tools which disguise or repurpose deep packet inspection as "software defined networking". A country wide router still can stay in service for a decade. Residential FTTx installations consist of a TelCo class switch, maybe a router, compact DSLAMs if you have DSL service and a couple of fibers in, tens of fibers out for FTTH customers. It's faster hardware on the same stack. Nothing more, nothing less. ...and, oh, link-speed (transparent) DPI equipment in key places for lawful interception.
    - blowski 3y ago
      It's electrified rocks all the way down.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Theoretically, if an entire major city's connection with the outside world was cut off, could all the infrastructure within the city function as a really big city-wide LAN?
      - bayindirh 3y ago
        Yes. You might need a dhcpd on a laptop though, if your city's IP management is outside the said city (Cable/DSL modems needs their own IPs, unless they are static). ...and possibly a small DNS server (or a hosts file somewhere easy to get). That's all you need. If you want to navigate via IPs only, you can do with a DHCPd.
cesarb 3y ago
> Too bad you can't use LAN to work from home Depends on what you consider "work from home". You might not be able to chat with your co-workers without a WAN connection (unless you go really old-school and use a telephone), but you can for instance develop software from home without any working network connection (and git makes it easier by allowing you to create commits while offline; see also the "git bundle" subcommand). I've done so occasionally when the Internet connection goes kaputt.
- _xivi 3y ago
  That's kinda my point replying to OP. We've indeed progressed. I'm not sure if you are denying that?

nicce 3y ago

Now you need 5Mbit speeds so that your Windows' boot time is not slowed down.

9dev 3y ago

In other news, old man yells at cloud. You conveniently ignore the changed reality: since the 90ies, the number of active internet users, malware, services, goods sold, and customer expectations have skyrocketed. What you have in stock is nostalgia, my friend. Everything worked? Like Windows 95 crashing if you looked at it sideways, Linux requiring you to compile drivers for pretty much any device yourself, like fifteen competing printer protocols all incompatible with each other? You might want to get a reality check :)

JaimeThompson 3y ago
>Linux requiring you to compile drivers for pretty much any device yourself It's not much better on modern Fedora. The drivers do come precompiled but you have to reboot sometimes twice per week to install updates.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  Nothing forces you to reboot it twice per week.
  - worthless-trash 3y ago
    Agree, they deliver updates and fixes, its good to have the option.
- phkahler 3y ago
  I rarely do updates and don't get notifications for them. Windows OTOH will demand I update, or decide to when I don't want it to.
radiospiel 3y ago
so young man yells at old man yelling at cloud? TBF, software in the past handled fluctuating connectivity much much better than todays, probably because back then this was normal. Once you got a thing working (a printer driver, say) it typically worked. Today, with spotty internet, software you have or could have on your device might or might not work. Just recently I have seen a website which loaded, but was non-functional until 2 mins later a cookie warning was also loaded. Nothing in there is about > the number of active internet users, malware, services, goods sold but about not building for applications only loading half (because we are still waiting for some obscure JS or CSS from not the original domain that noone really never needs.)