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> Canada you have to live for 6 months with a knee injury before surgery just because of the wait to access an MRI The healthcare system in the west is just pl

> Canada you have to live for 6 months with a knee injury before surgery just because of the wait to access an MRI The healthcare system in the west is just plain stupid. In asia you can walk into a clinic and see a doctor in 30m. Want to get a X-ray or mri etc at hospital? An hour? Yet in NZ a friends sister has been waiting 4 months now to have her shoulder checked by a specialist. It’s easier to fly to asia and see a doctor than it is to try see a doctor is a western country.

jakeogh 4y ago
I walked into an ER in Tucson, Arizona last winter, and was out within an hour with a CT scan and clear diagnosis. Took me another 2 days to get the raw data. It was awesome.
xyzzyz 4y ago
This is also how it works in US, you just go to imaging place and they do it immediately. You just have to pay for it. In countries with state controlled healthcare, service is rationed.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
  I wish we could have it both ways somehow: a baseline level of widely available cheap care and an expensive tier for people who'd pay anything to get quick care. I'm not a policy expert so I won't pretend to understand all the problems involved or the potential solutions. But as a patient I have a disability that makes it so the state covers 100% of my health expanses. I've been needing to see a physiotherapist for 3 years but can't find a single one that does home visits. Because of the dwindling number of physiotherapists even those that receive patients in their office sometimes have to see 5 patients at a time. So I have great coverage for terrible or no care at all. I was so desperate I called every physio in my region and told them I'd pay them any amount to come see me, but they can't take my money because the price of their service is regulated and they'd lose their license. Same thing for public hospitals, I came in Friday with three broken bones they wanted me out by Saturday, they didn't have a single available bed in their orthopedic unit and they needed the E.R bed back as soon as possible. All that because we decided to regulate the maximum number of doctors so now everyone has to go get care at the hospital instead of at home care by their local doctor. We do have some pretty stellar private hospitals though but it doesn't help because you don't choose where you get sent to when you call an ambulance. It's a mess.
  - moonchrome 4y ago
    >a baseline level of widely available cheap care and an expensive tier for people who'd pay anything to get quick care We sort of have this in Croatia, public care and a lot of private options. It's not that great because : - There is a tension with public system where doctors from public care move to private system, you hear about doctors working at a private clinics while they are on shift in public hospital, or referring you to their private clinic if you want to get treatment in reasonable amount of time - Private clinics usually don't cover everything, they focus on the profitable stuff. Like we had two smaller earthquakes (~5) around the time my wife was pregnant and both times they were evacuating pregnant women out in the street because the public hospital buildings are >100 years old. Private option was expensive and in case of complications they would still need to ambulance you to a general hospital - Medical tourism eats up private capacity - this is kind of a mixed thing because medical tourism also keeps the field growing/investing much more than domestic demand alone would
    - naasking 4y ago
      There's another consideration too: the wealthy people stop caring about funding the public tier because they can afford not to care about it, lobby for policies to cut public funding to lower taxes. Two tier systems typically degrade the public tier over time.
      - moonchrome 4y ago
        I'd say wealthy people don't use the public option anyway/get top tier institutions.
        naasking 4y ago
        Depends. There is rarely a private ER, and as you say, private care will often focus on the higher margin items so the lower margin stuff might be left to the public option. Some countries forbid two tier systems entirely for this reason, like here in Canada.
  - 4y ago
- fallingknife 4y ago
  It's absolutely insane. I had a knee MRI in SF 5 ears ago, and the out of pocket cost, with insurance, was $900. Insurance paid around $2000. And the wait was 3 weeks. I found a private imaging place that could do it for $750 next day. Called the insurance company and told them that we could both save some money on this, and got "that's not how it works." Bureaucracy is societal cancer.
- virtualritz 4y ago
  > In countries with state controlled healthcare, service is rationed. Perpetuating a myth doesn't make it more true. See my reply about Germany/Berlin above. It also doesn't mirror my experience in India (2004) and Sweden (2015) where I needed to use the resp. medical system.
- pigsty 4y ago
  > In countries with state controlled healthcare, service is rationed. Americans really love eating up this meme. I can get scans any time in Japan and I never wait. If doctors think it’s an emergency, they’ll do whatever scan is necessary then and there. If not, they’ll pull out a calendar and ask me to pick any day that’s convenient for me. Meanwhile my friends in the US are waiting months for basic shit. My dad visited me in Japan in December and had to visit a dentist for emergency care and was offered to do surgery on the spot. He decided to delay it until he returned to the US. The earliest available appointment in his area is next month. It’s insanity seeing Americans parrot this stuff. It’s North Korea-level propaganda. Hell, it’s worse. North Koreans have no access to the outside world so you can’t blame them. Americans just actively turn away anything in favor of “well a guy who knows a guy said he saw a guy on tv who heard about a guy who once heard a story about a guy from a guy in another country said those people wait a long time for health care!” But the strangest thing is countless Americans, including myself, will pop into any thread to talk about how they have endless bad experiences with health care in the US (I’ve been forced to wait forever and then still charged out the ass because my health insurance was randomly rejected), while most bad experiences with other countries is seventh hand info. Americans complaining about health care in countries they’ve never been to far outnumbers people with first hand info—usually the ones with firsthand info are saying “it’s pretty good out there”
  - sva_ 4y ago
    Good for japanese folks. Here in Germany you wait months to see a specialist if it isn't an emergency, and it's getting worse.
    - morsch 4y ago
      Totally depends. Mostly on where you are in Germany, and to a degree whether you're willing to call a few different doctors. An acquaintance with a shoulder injury got an appointment with an orthopedic specialist within a week, who recommended an MRI. The second hospital she called just happened to have a free MRI slot the next morning. Personally, I never had to have an MRI, but when I needed to see a specialist for acute back pain, I got an appointment (and a fix) within 24h. I have never in my life waited months for an appointment with any specialist. This is all on public health insurance (and without any additional charge, ie. the MRI was "free"). Relatives tell me it's much more difficult in other places in Germany; I sometimes wonder if they should just get an appointment here, Germany isn't that big.
- onion2k 4y ago
  In countries with state controlled healthcare, service is rationed. The service is rationed in the US too, just on a basis of money instead of time.
- pokot0 4y ago
  In Italy you can wait (lenght depends on the seriousness of your problem) and pay nothing, or you go to the very same public hospital, pay and do it right away. Oh, it costs 200-400eu. About 1/10th and what its asked for here in CA. Healthcare in US is a little bit scammy....
- kwhitefoot 4y ago
  I'm beginning to think that there should be consequences for spreading this kind of misinformation.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  We believe in healthcare for all, so we endeavour to allocate limited resources carefully. And this is one of many things that contributes to a society where I feel safe sending my kids to school without Kevlar.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  That's not how it works, though. You can wait months for a specialist in the US. Especially a neurologist (as in an MS forum). And then, you have to get one in network OR pay more - and your insurance might not cover it. You have business rationed health care, and some folks are going without. Some folks are now thinking about different programs for poor folks... but we know those don't cover everyone with need. On the other hand, I now live in Norway. The health care system, in general, works. I'm never going to be bankrupt due to medical expenses and I know other people aren't using riskier and harder to use insulin because it is all they can afford. I can get to the doctor in a timely manner and if there is a wait (for non-critical things), there is an actual safety net that means I can take the time off work while I wait for the MRI to open up. Even when there is a wait, it isn't nearly as bad as it would be in the US.
  - MavisBacon 4y ago
    yep getting a neurologist here in the states is a nightmare. Both of my neurologists typically book 3-4 months out. When I first began needing neurological care my primary Dr. told me he had a patient who had a stroke and needed to wait a month to see a neuro. pro tip for others: if you you really can't wait for care, just keep calling your doctor's office every day asking about recently cancelled appointments. I usually get in fairly quickly this way though it's pain
- bearmode 4y ago
  The problem is decades of underfunding of health services. Neoliberals in charge like having reasons for increasing privatisation of healthcare, so they underfund, reduce quality, increase wait times, and attempt to get the public on board with more privatisation.
- vidarh 4y ago
  At most a few countries worldwide has anything resembling "state controlled healthcare" (in fact, I cant name any - Norway used to a couple of decadds ago, but bow have plenty of private providers) Almost all countries with universal healthcare have widespread private services. Many have their universal services provisioned entirely or in part from private providers. When I had a gastroscopy a while back it was done in a private hospital but arranged by the NHS and paid by the NHS. If I want a private MRI there are dozens of providers in London.
esperent 4y ago
> In asia you can walk into a clinic and see a doctor in 30m ... If you're rich relative to the general population, then you can go to an expensive private clinic and be seen quickly, yes. I doubt that's the case for public hospitals and in any case, I've been inside public hospitals in Indonesia, Cambodia, and Vietnam (all for other people's needs, nothing major thankfully). Trust me, you do not want to get treated in one of those and as a westerner you'll never even see them unless you friend gets bitten by a monkey in the Cambodian jungle (for example) and there's no private clinics nearby. I always assumed the casual attitude towards hygiene that Asian people have wouldn't extend to hospitals. I was wrong. There were literally blood stains on the wall in the corridor. The toilet was a hole in the ground with a bucket of water and a scoop to wash your hands and ass with. There was no soap. This wasn't a small hospital, it was the main hospital for a city of about 200k people.
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  It’s not terribly expensive. Most scans cost under $100 at the top facility in the wealthy part of Delhi. The cost would be 20-30% lower at centers in cheaper parts of the city. Delhi’s nominal per capita income is north of $6k. Even if you’re plain average, a $60-80 one time scan is within reach.
  - shjake 4y ago
    Spending 10-20% of you monthly income on on a single test does not seem like a good deal at all.
    - spaceman_2020 4y ago
      1. Government hospitals offer MRI scams at free or heavily subsidized prices to everyone. Going to a private clinic is optional 2. You typically don't need MRI scams all that often
    - numpad0 4y ago
      Edit: replied to completely wrong comment. Below was supposed to go to one comment above. Government rate is $120 per imaging session, with standard 1/3 deductible. Minimum wage in Tokyo at this moment is $1336, so more like 3-5% after additional diagnosis and fees.
starfallg 4y ago
This is the result of single payer or nationalised systems where private healthcare is not allowed. So in systems like the UK, you can walk into a clinic for an MRI, you just have to pay privately for that access, usually covered if you have additional medical insurance. If you want the procedure though nationalised healthcare (NHS), there is a wait. Health insurance is relatively cheap in the UK compared to the US. A lot of frontline care is done via the NHS contracts with the GPs and the A&E service at the NHS hospitals.
- DanBC 4y ago
  > If you want the procedure though nationalised healthcare (NHS), there is a wait Unless it's an emergent procedure, in which case it'll be done same day or within the next 72 hours.
  - starfallg 4y ago
    Yes, that's right, there is a system of prioritisation in the NHS and this also varies by the different NHS trusts so it depends on where you live.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    > Unless it's an emergent procedure I’m a massive advocate for socialised healthcare, but NHS emergency departments have been farcically bad lately. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/13/accident-emergency-patients-nhs-england-dangerous-wait-times-12-hours https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/13/accident-eme...
    - regularfry 4y ago
      The reasons for this are very interesting. It's worth having a read of https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/B2034-delivery-plan-for-recovering-urgent-and-emergency-care-services.pdf https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/B2034-... for more info from the source. The interface with social care is a particularly hard nut to crack.
lostlogin 4y ago
> Yet in NZ a friends sister has been waiting 4 months now to have her shoulder checked by a specialist. I’m not sure what going on here, as an MR could be done for that tomorrow. However I’d guess that the hold up is a free healthcare system specialist. If it was a private referral or after an accident, you’ll get seen much sooner. Unfortunately the public system is under pressure.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
audunw 4y ago
> The healthcare system in the west is just plain stupid. What the hell is "the west" in this context? Do you have experience with every health care system in Europe? Why is "NZ" considered "the west"? > In asia you can walk into a clinic and see a doctor in 30m. You can in many places in Europe too. The flip side of the asian systems can be incredibly overworked and stressed health care workers. I know the service in Taiwan is fantastic (though a bit stressful, was way busier than in Norway), but I also know a nurse working there saying the working conditions are quite awful. They also encourage doing way more testing than necessary. That makes it so testing is pipelined and efficient. You get economies of scale. But doing this is generally considered a very bad idea, because you can get false/misleading diagnosis and undergo unnecessary treatments with potentially bad side effects. Along with all the wasted time and resources that could have been spent working on actually sick people. Which in asian countries can mean that poor people don't get the resources they need to get treatment.
- throwaway2990 4y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world > The Western world, also known as the West, primarily refers to various nations and states in the regions of Australasia,[a] Europe,[b] and the Americas. > but I also know a nurse working there saying the working conditions are quite awful. I can imagine during covid the conditions were awful. But on a day to day basis the hospitals are pretty quiet. The hospitals don’t do more tests. It’s more people taking advantage of their health card. For example our daughter was in hospital for ~7 days. It cost $65 USD. People get health check ups often cos it costs almost nothing. Visiting a clinic costs $5~ and people often want antibiotics when they have a cold even when advised it won’t help as it’s a virus not bacterial.

jakeogh 4y ago

I walked into an ER in Tucson, Arizona last winter, and was out within an hour with a CT scan and clear diagnosis. Took me another 2 days to get the raw data. It was awesome.

xyzzyz 4y ago

This is also how it works in US, you just go to imaging place and they do it immediately. You just have to pay for it. In countries with state controlled healthcare, service is rationed.

ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
I wish we could have it both ways somehow: a baseline level of widely available cheap care and an expensive tier for people who'd pay anything to get quick care. I'm not a policy expert so I won't pretend to understand all the problems involved or the potential solutions. But as a patient I have a disability that makes it so the state covers 100% of my health expanses. I've been needing to see a physiotherapist for 3 years but can't find a single one that does home visits. Because of the dwindling number of physiotherapists even those that receive patients in their office sometimes have to see 5 patients at a time. So I have great coverage for terrible or no care at all. I was so desperate I called every physio in my region and told them I'd pay them any amount to come see me, but they can't take my money because the price of their service is regulated and they'd lose their license. Same thing for public hospitals, I came in Friday with three broken bones they wanted me out by Saturday, they didn't have a single available bed in their orthopedic unit and they needed the E.R bed back as soon as possible. All that because we decided to regulate the maximum number of doctors so now everyone has to go get care at the hospital instead of at home care by their local doctor. We do have some pretty stellar private hospitals though but it doesn't help because you don't choose where you get sent to when you call an ambulance. It's a mess.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  >a baseline level of widely available cheap care and an expensive tier for people who'd pay anything to get quick care We sort of have this in Croatia, public care and a lot of private options. It's not that great because : - There is a tension with public system where doctors from public care move to private system, you hear about doctors working at a private clinics while they are on shift in public hospital, or referring you to their private clinic if you want to get treatment in reasonable amount of time - Private clinics usually don't cover everything, they focus on the profitable stuff. Like we had two smaller earthquakes (~5) around the time my wife was pregnant and both times they were evacuating pregnant women out in the street because the public hospital buildings are >100 years old. Private option was expensive and in case of complications they would still need to ambulance you to a general hospital - Medical tourism eats up private capacity - this is kind of a mixed thing because medical tourism also keeps the field growing/investing much more than domestic demand alone would
  - naasking 4y ago
    There's another consideration too: the wealthy people stop caring about funding the public tier because they can afford not to care about it, lobby for policies to cut public funding to lower taxes. Two tier systems typically degrade the public tier over time.
    - moonchrome 4y ago
      I'd say wealthy people don't use the public option anyway/get top tier institutions.
      - naasking 4y ago
        Depends. There is rarely a private ER, and as you say, private care will often focus on the higher margin items so the lower margin stuff might be left to the public option. Some countries forbid two tier systems entirely for this reason, like here in Canada.
- 4y ago
fallingknife 4y ago
It's absolutely insane. I had a knee MRI in SF 5 ears ago, and the out of pocket cost, with insurance, was $900. Insurance paid around $2000. And the wait was 3 weeks. I found a private imaging place that could do it for $750 next day. Called the insurance company and told them that we could both save some money on this, and got "that's not how it works." Bureaucracy is societal cancer.
virtualritz 4y ago
> In countries with state controlled healthcare, service is rationed. Perpetuating a myth doesn't make it more true. See my reply about Germany/Berlin above. It also doesn't mirror my experience in India (2004) and Sweden (2015) where I needed to use the resp. medical system.
pigsty 4y ago
> In countries with state controlled healthcare, service is rationed. Americans really love eating up this meme. I can get scans any time in Japan and I never wait. If doctors think it’s an emergency, they’ll do whatever scan is necessary then and there. If not, they’ll pull out a calendar and ask me to pick any day that’s convenient for me. Meanwhile my friends in the US are waiting months for basic shit. My dad visited me in Japan in December and had to visit a dentist for emergency care and was offered to do surgery on the spot. He decided to delay it until he returned to the US. The earliest available appointment in his area is next month. It’s insanity seeing Americans parrot this stuff. It’s North Korea-level propaganda. Hell, it’s worse. North Koreans have no access to the outside world so you can’t blame them. Americans just actively turn away anything in favor of “well a guy who knows a guy said he saw a guy on tv who heard about a guy who once heard a story about a guy from a guy in another country said those people wait a long time for health care!” But the strangest thing is countless Americans, including myself, will pop into any thread to talk about how they have endless bad experiences with health care in the US (I’ve been forced to wait forever and then still charged out the ass because my health insurance was randomly rejected), while most bad experiences with other countries is seventh hand info. Americans complaining about health care in countries they’ve never been to far outnumbers people with first hand info—usually the ones with firsthand info are saying “it’s pretty good out there”
- sva_ 4y ago
  Good for japanese folks. Here in Germany you wait months to see a specialist if it isn't an emergency, and it's getting worse.
  - morsch 4y ago
    Totally depends. Mostly on where you are in Germany, and to a degree whether you're willing to call a few different doctors. An acquaintance with a shoulder injury got an appointment with an orthopedic specialist within a week, who recommended an MRI. The second hospital she called just happened to have a free MRI slot the next morning. Personally, I never had to have an MRI, but when I needed to see a specialist for acute back pain, I got an appointment (and a fix) within 24h. I have never in my life waited months for an appointment with any specialist. This is all on public health insurance (and without any additional charge, ie. the MRI was "free"). Relatives tell me it's much more difficult in other places in Germany; I sometimes wonder if they should just get an appointment here, Germany isn't that big.
onion2k 4y ago
In countries with state controlled healthcare, service is rationed. The service is rationed in the US too, just on a basis of money instead of time.
pokot0 4y ago
In Italy you can wait (lenght depends on the seriousness of your problem) and pay nothing, or you go to the very same public hospital, pay and do it right away. Oh, it costs 200-400eu. About 1/10th and what its asked for here in CA. Healthcare in US is a little bit scammy....
kwhitefoot 4y ago
I'm beginning to think that there should be consequences for spreading this kind of misinformation.
Waterluvian 4y ago
We believe in healthcare for all, so we endeavour to allocate limited resources carefully. And this is one of many things that contributes to a society where I feel safe sending my kids to school without Kevlar.
Broken_Hippo 4y ago
That's not how it works, though. You can wait months for a specialist in the US. Especially a neurologist (as in an MS forum). And then, you have to get one in network OR pay more - and your insurance might not cover it. You have business rationed health care, and some folks are going without. Some folks are now thinking about different programs for poor folks... but we know those don't cover everyone with need. On the other hand, I now live in Norway. The health care system, in general, works. I'm never going to be bankrupt due to medical expenses and I know other people aren't using riskier and harder to use insulin because it is all they can afford. I can get to the doctor in a timely manner and if there is a wait (for non-critical things), there is an actual safety net that means I can take the time off work while I wait for the MRI to open up. Even when there is a wait, it isn't nearly as bad as it would be in the US.
- MavisBacon 4y ago
  yep getting a neurologist here in the states is a nightmare. Both of my neurologists typically book 3-4 months out. When I first began needing neurological care my primary Dr. told me he had a patient who had a stroke and needed to wait a month to see a neuro. pro tip for others: if you you really can't wait for care, just keep calling your doctor's office every day asking about recently cancelled appointments. I usually get in fairly quickly this way though it's pain
bearmode 4y ago
The problem is decades of underfunding of health services. Neoliberals in charge like having reasons for increasing privatisation of healthcare, so they underfund, reduce quality, increase wait times, and attempt to get the public on board with more privatisation.
vidarh 4y ago
At most a few countries worldwide has anything resembling "state controlled healthcare" (in fact, I cant name any - Norway used to a couple of decadds ago, but bow have plenty of private providers) Almost all countries with universal healthcare have widespread private services. Many have their universal services provisioned entirely or in part from private providers. When I had a gastroscopy a while back it was done in a private hospital but arranged by the NHS and paid by the NHS. If I want a private MRI there are dozens of providers in London.

esperent 4y ago

> In asia you can walk into a clinic and see a doctor in 30m ... If you're rich relative to the general population, then you can go to an expensive private clinic and be seen quickly, yes. I doubt that's the case for public hospitals and in any case, I've been inside public hospitals in Indonesia, Cambodia, and Vietnam (all for other people's needs, nothing major thankfully). Trust me, you do not want to get treated in one of those and as a westerner you'll never even see them unless you friend gets bitten by a monkey in the Cambodian jungle (for example) and there's no private clinics nearby. I always assumed the casual attitude towards hygiene that Asian people have wouldn't extend to hospitals. I was wrong. There were literally blood stains on the wall in the corridor. The toilet was a hole in the ground with a bucket of water and a scoop to wash your hands and ass with. There was no soap. This wasn't a small hospital, it was the main hospital for a city of about 200k people.

spaceman_2020 4y ago
It’s not terribly expensive. Most scans cost under $100 at the top facility in the wealthy part of Delhi. The cost would be 20-30% lower at centers in cheaper parts of the city. Delhi’s nominal per capita income is north of $6k. Even if you’re plain average, a $60-80 one time scan is within reach.
- shjake 4y ago
  Spending 10-20% of you monthly income on on a single test does not seem like a good deal at all.
  - spaceman_2020 4y ago
    1. Government hospitals offer MRI scams at free or heavily subsidized prices to everyone. Going to a private clinic is optional 2. You typically don't need MRI scams all that often
  - numpad0 4y ago
    Edit: replied to completely wrong comment. Below was supposed to go to one comment above. Government rate is $120 per imaging session, with standard 1/3 deductible. Minimum wage in Tokyo at this moment is $1336, so more like 3-5% after additional diagnosis and fees.

starfallg 4y ago

This is the result of single payer or nationalised systems where private healthcare is not allowed. So in systems like the UK, you can walk into a clinic for an MRI, you just have to pay privately for that access, usually covered if you have additional medical insurance. If you want the procedure though nationalised healthcare (NHS), there is a wait. Health insurance is relatively cheap in the UK compared to the US. A lot of frontline care is done via the NHS contracts with the GPs and the A&E service at the NHS hospitals.

DanBC 4y ago
> If you want the procedure though nationalised healthcare (NHS), there is a wait Unless it's an emergent procedure, in which case it'll be done same day or within the next 72 hours.
- starfallg 4y ago
  Yes, that's right, there is a system of prioritisation in the NHS and this also varies by the different NHS trusts so it depends on where you live.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  > Unless it's an emergent procedure I’m a massive advocate for socialised healthcare, but NHS emergency departments have been farcically bad lately. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/13/accident-emergency-patients-nhs-england-dangerous-wait-times-12-hours https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/13/accident-eme...
  - regularfry 4y ago
    The reasons for this are very interesting. It's worth having a read of https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/B2034-delivery-plan-for-recovering-urgent-and-emergency-care-services.pdf https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/B2034-... for more info from the source. The interface with social care is a particularly hard nut to crack.

lostlogin 4y ago

> Yet in NZ a friends sister has been waiting 4 months now to have her shoulder checked by a specialist. I’m not sure what going on here, as an MR could be done for that tomorrow. However I’d guess that the hold up is a free healthcare system specialist. If it was a private referral or after an accident, you’ll get seen much sooner. Unfortunately the public system is under pressure.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

audunw 4y ago

> The healthcare system in the west is just plain stupid. What the hell is "the west" in this context? Do you have experience with every health care system in Europe? Why is "NZ" considered "the west"? > In asia you can walk into a clinic and see a doctor in 30m. You can in many places in Europe too. The flip side of the asian systems can be incredibly overworked and stressed health care workers. I know the service in Taiwan is fantastic (though a bit stressful, was way busier than in Norway), but I also know a nurse working there saying the working conditions are quite awful. They also encourage doing way more testing than necessary. That makes it so testing is pipelined and efficient. You get economies of scale. But doing this is generally considered a very bad idea, because you can get false/misleading diagnosis and undergo unnecessary treatments with potentially bad side effects. Along with all the wasted time and resources that could have been spent working on actually sick people. Which in asian countries can mean that poor people don't get the resources they need to get treatment.

throwaway2990 4y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world > The Western world, also known as the West, primarily refers to various nations and states in the regions of Australasia,[a] Europe,[b] and the Americas. > but I also know a nurse working there saying the working conditions are quite awful. I can imagine during covid the conditions were awful. But on a day to day basis the hospitals are pretty quiet. The hospitals don’t do more tests. It’s more people taking advantage of their health card. For example our daughter was in hospital for ~7 days. It cost $65 USD. People get health check ups often cos it costs almost nothing. Visiting a clinic costs $5~ and people often want antibiotics when they have a cold even when advised it won’t help as it’s a virus not bacterial.