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Because left and right are ambiguous - are you talking about MY left or the boat’s left? Having unambiguous names let’s us differentiate and avoid confusion.

Because left and right are ambiguous - are you talking about MY left or the boat’s left? Having unambiguous names let’s us differentiate and avoid confusion. It might be hard to grok the need for this if you’ve never been in a tight spot while sailing or operating a watercraft with a crew - but having this distinction has probably saved thousands of bad incidents from happening.

taeric 3y ago
I can see it as advantageous. With the major caveat that it is only advantageous to folks that have been taught it. Not shockingly, a large portion of the passengers on a boat are going to be confused if told to go to the starboard windows to see the whales that are beside the boat. How will you explain it? I'm going to guess that you will probably say "right." :D. (Note that this isn't hypothetical. I take a ferry fairly often, and surprisingly few of us know starboard from port.)
- xg15 3y ago
  Yes, in that situation, you can confidently tell them to look to their right, because you can assume that most of them will sit in direction of travel and face forward. However, the same is not true for a sailor who might be running around on deck.
  - taeric 3y ago
    This isn't accurate, either. Most of us are decidedly not facing the direction of travel. Specifically, we are evenly split in large parts of the boat, as they have bench chairs that face each other. Or you are on the side of the boat facing out. The ferry is actually a very odd boat in this, btw. As I am not clear that starboard/port are fixed. The boat literally goes in both directions, such that I'm assuming I don't have to know which is the "front" of it irrespective of the direction it is currently traveling. I get your point, that things can be difficult. And I appreciate having jargon that is specific for an attempt to make things clearer. I just find this as the sole explanation kind of unsatisfactory. Seeing the history of the terms makes a lot more sense.
    - dceddia 3y ago
      Port and starboard are indeed fixed (same with bow and stern), so that no matter which way the boat is moving or the passengers are facing, those words always refer to the same physical sides of the boat :)
      - taeric 3y ago
        Per another thread, this may not be the case for ferries? At least not for ones that don't turn around. (Note that many "people ferry" boats are able to turn around. Larger car ferries are fully symmetric and have no fixed bow/stern. Edit: I found more discussion on this by searching for "double ended" boats. Port/starboard do indeed change depending on the direction of travel from all results I've found.
        dceddia 3y ago
        Hmm interesting. Wonder if they have some non-symmetrical parts, like the location of the engine maybe?
        taeric 3y ago
        Not the ones I ride. They have engines on each end. To be fair, they may not be 100% symmetrical. I am not measuring. They are close enough that I can't imagine it would be a good use of the terms. (That is, when the VAST majority of the time the bow is the front of the boat, having a few bigger boats where I have to inspect it to know which is bow and stern would be a bad idea.)
        toast0 3y ago
        Sure. If nothing else, they've got labels on 'end 1' and 'end 2', and the rest of the boat is labeled into quadrants that don't change (A-D). If there's a galley, that's on one end or the other; the passenger deck is assymmetric. The car decks and the sundeck appear to be mostly symmetric other than labelling, and maybe elevator placement? The machinery under the car decks is likely somewhat assymetric too, but I've never gotten to go down below.
Clamchop 3y ago
Yes but why would you ever be talking about your left? Use the definite article, THE left, and it should be clear by convention for the sailors. I think it's just historical.
- judge2020 3y ago
  Any room for error is a guarantee that a human will mess it up. Left already has a definition, so there's room for confusion; a word specifically talking about the ship is more concise.
- binarymax 3y ago
  Imagine you are crew, standing on a ship. You are facing east, and the bow of the ship is facing north. It’s night and there is a thick fog. You hear a cry “man overboard on the left!” Where is the overboard person? Are they to your left, the ships left, or the left of the person shouting? If the cry is instead “man overboard on the port side!” there is no question.
  - wpietri 3y ago
    Great points. And I'd add that thanks to wind and water, ships can also move in directions besides the obvious one. So it's possible in this case the boat could be moving west, giving another direction that left could be relative to.
  - taeric 3y ago
    This feels contrived, to be honest. Late at night on a vehicle that isn't moving with no other discerning factors to distinguish things, and you are basically screwed. Though, realistically, you are just going to wherever the shouting is coming from, you are not going to go slow to orient yourself to the vehicle. Even better, someone would yell something even more defining for where to catch someone that is going to be specific to the boat you are on. (Well, more realistically, you have hopefully practiced emergency drills such that the term is almost irrelevant, you have practiced so much.) This is about as worrisome as "you are the fire department, and you are told you need to rescue some people on the 14th floor. Quick, does that mean you go up 13 flights of stairs, or 11?" Realistically, you aren't getting it right on spur of the moment decision making.
quenched 3y ago
There's a similar issue in medical imaging, when oriented with the patient "facing you". Then my left is patient right and vice versa. This is why in the days of processed x-ray films, TV shows would more commonly hang a chest x-ray incorrectly[1], with the (patient's) "left" label on the left instead of the right. It's less common now that the example imaging is digital. [1] https://screenrant.com/scrubs-xray-gag-joke-deeper-meaning/ https://screenrant.com/scrubs-xray-gag-joke-deeper-meaning/

taeric 3y ago

I can see it as advantageous. With the major caveat that it is only advantageous to folks that have been taught it. Not shockingly, a large portion of the passengers on a boat are going to be confused if told to go to the starboard windows to see the whales that are beside the boat. How will you explain it? I'm going to guess that you will probably say "right." :D. (Note that this isn't hypothetical. I take a ferry fairly often, and surprisingly few of us know starboard from port.)

xg15 3y ago
Yes, in that situation, you can confidently tell them to look to their right, because you can assume that most of them will sit in direction of travel and face forward. However, the same is not true for a sailor who might be running around on deck.
- taeric 3y ago
  This isn't accurate, either. Most of us are decidedly not facing the direction of travel. Specifically, we are evenly split in large parts of the boat, as they have bench chairs that face each other. Or you are on the side of the boat facing out. The ferry is actually a very odd boat in this, btw. As I am not clear that starboard/port are fixed. The boat literally goes in both directions, such that I'm assuming I don't have to know which is the "front" of it irrespective of the direction it is currently traveling. I get your point, that things can be difficult. And I appreciate having jargon that is specific for an attempt to make things clearer. I just find this as the sole explanation kind of unsatisfactory. Seeing the history of the terms makes a lot more sense.
  - dceddia 3y ago
    Port and starboard are indeed fixed (same with bow and stern), so that no matter which way the boat is moving or the passengers are facing, those words always refer to the same physical sides of the boat :)
    - taeric 3y ago
      Per another thread, this may not be the case for ferries? At least not for ones that don't turn around. (Note that many "people ferry" boats are able to turn around. Larger car ferries are fully symmetric and have no fixed bow/stern. Edit: I found more discussion on this by searching for "double ended" boats. Port/starboard do indeed change depending on the direction of travel from all results I've found.
      - dceddia 3y ago
        Hmm interesting. Wonder if they have some non-symmetrical parts, like the location of the engine maybe?
        taeric 3y ago
        Not the ones I ride. They have engines on each end. To be fair, they may not be 100% symmetrical. I am not measuring. They are close enough that I can't imagine it would be a good use of the terms. (That is, when the VAST majority of the time the bow is the front of the boat, having a few bigger boats where I have to inspect it to know which is bow and stern would be a bad idea.)
        toast0 3y ago
        Sure. If nothing else, they've got labels on 'end 1' and 'end 2', and the rest of the boat is labeled into quadrants that don't change (A-D). If there's a galley, that's on one end or the other; the passenger deck is assymmetric. The car decks and the sundeck appear to be mostly symmetric other than labelling, and maybe elevator placement? The machinery under the car decks is likely somewhat assymetric too, but I've never gotten to go down below.

Clamchop 3y ago

Yes but why would you ever be talking about your left? Use the definite article, THE left, and it should be clear by convention for the sailors. I think it's just historical.

judge2020 3y ago
Any room for error is a guarantee that a human will mess it up. Left already has a definition, so there's room for confusion; a word specifically talking about the ship is more concise.
binarymax 3y ago
Imagine you are crew, standing on a ship. You are facing east, and the bow of the ship is facing north. It’s night and there is a thick fog. You hear a cry “man overboard on the left!” Where is the overboard person? Are they to your left, the ships left, or the left of the person shouting? If the cry is instead “man overboard on the port side!” there is no question.
- wpietri 3y ago
  Great points. And I'd add that thanks to wind and water, ships can also move in directions besides the obvious one. So it's possible in this case the boat could be moving west, giving another direction that left could be relative to.
- taeric 3y ago
  This feels contrived, to be honest. Late at night on a vehicle that isn't moving with no other discerning factors to distinguish things, and you are basically screwed. Though, realistically, you are just going to wherever the shouting is coming from, you are not going to go slow to orient yourself to the vehicle. Even better, someone would yell something even more defining for where to catch someone that is going to be specific to the boat you are on. (Well, more realistically, you have hopefully practiced emergency drills such that the term is almost irrelevant, you have practiced so much.) This is about as worrisome as "you are the fire department, and you are told you need to rescue some people on the 14th floor. Quick, does that mean you go up 13 flights of stairs, or 11?" Realistically, you aren't getting it right on spur of the moment decision making.

quenched 3y ago

There's a similar issue in medical imaging, when oriented with the patient "facing you". Then my left is patient right and vice versa. This is why in the days of processed x-ray films, TV shows would more commonly hang a chest x-ray incorrectly[1], with the (patient's) "left" label on the left instead of the right. It's less common now that the example imaging is digital. [1] https://screenrant.com/scrubs-xray-gag-joke-deeper-meaning/ https://screenrant.com/scrubs-xray-gag-joke-deeper-meaning/