5 ms·

the thing is it's not incontrovertible proof, it's "beyond reasonable doubt" the prosecution would show up with when you bought the phone, how many times you'd

the thing is it's not incontrovertible proof, it's "beyond reasonable doubt" the prosecution would show up with when you bought the phone, how many times you'd used it, that you used it 80 times in the last hour, and so on and it comes down to whether or not a jury would believe that you had really forgotten it (despite that evidence)

negidius 4y ago
Which means that someone who forgets their passcode because of the stress of being arrested and threatened with years in prison could easily be wrongfully convicted. It's a horrible law, even for those who don't care about privacy.
- blibble 4y ago
  I am not a fan of the RIP Act (and there's plenty more badness in there) but playing devil's advocate, without this specific offence the disclosure sections would be completely ineffectual (remember the UK also allows adverse inferences to be made from silence, it is not the US)
  - flangola7 4y ago
    If you can't remain silent then what are you supposed to do to not accidentally incriminate yourself?
    - tristor 4y ago
      This is one of the reasons why other countries outside the US aren't as free as the US, even though the US is a complete mess too in different ways. Freedom of both speech and silence are not really respected in law anywhere outside the US to the extent that they are in the US.
      - kspacewalk2 4y ago
        Many many countries have rules against drawing adverse inferences from silence, including event Scotland, which is part of the UK.
        midoridensha 4y ago
        Scotland really should leave the UK, and then rejoin the EU. They'd be better off.
        TeaDude 4y ago
        They also have apecific devolved laws that you can be arrested for illegal speech in your own home and your children can be interrogated about it.
        1827162 4y ago
        https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/29/sending-the-thought-polis-into-scottish-homes/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/29/sending-the-thought... Yes, the Scottish Hate Crime bill. And as expected, they are trying to expand it to cover misogyny. So someone's going to end up serving time for a silly joke they made in a pub. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-give-backing-to-make-misogyny-a-hate-crime-0lcfx6wtl https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-give-backing-to-mak... https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/11/why-misogyny-must-not-become-a-hate-crime/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/11/why-misogyny-must-n... https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/16/dont-make-misogyny-a-hate-crime/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/16/dont-make-misogyny-...
        flangola7 4y ago
        I'm not going to get upset if sexist jerks get a little readjustment.
        tristor 4y ago
    - barney54 4y ago
      You say nothing about the alleged crime and instead ask for an attorney. Remember this important advice—shut the fuck up. https://youtu.be/sgWHrkDX35o https://youtu.be/sgWHrkDX35o
      - flangola7 4y ago
        That video is about US law. The above comment says shutting the fuck up can be used as a negative inference against you in court.
        Paul-Craft 4y ago
        Not if you get a lawyer, because as soon as your lawyer shows up, they say "My client invokes his/her right to remain silent."
        flangola7 4y ago
        What right to remain silent are you referring to? Can you link it?
  - miles 4y ago
    > remember the UK also allows adverse inferences to be made from silence, it is not the US Even in the US, the law has changed rather drastically[0]: “The only way to prevent the government from introducing evidence of the suspect's silence at trial is to explicitly invoke (assert) the right to say nothing. In other words, without being warned by the police or advised by a lawyer, and without even the benefit of the familiar Miranda warnings (which might trigger an ‘I want to invoke my right to be silent!’), the interviewee must apparently say words to the effect of, ‘I invoke my privilege against self-incrimination.’” [0] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-how-invoke-your-right-silence.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-how-invoke-your...
- yongjik 4y ago
  IANAL but it sounds like this defense would be received about as well as "Your honor, the defendant was in grave stress of being arrested and threatened with years in prison. That's why he completely forgot why and how he parked his car next to Crosby Lake and was walking in the shallow water, carrying an identified bag, at 3am."
  - mike_hock 4y ago
    So basically that just proves the parent poster's point because the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove that the defendant was carrying a bag containing a body and the defendant is under no obligation to remember or justify parking his car by the lake at 3am and walking around.
  - bippihippi1 4y ago
    The defendant didn't admit to a crime and wouldn't open their house to unreasonable search. how suspicious
counttheforks 4y ago
right, you are explaining why the law is ridiculous and unfair
yencabulator 4y ago
The lesson to take away from that is to have a smaller compartment (or multiple) inside the computer that contains all the juicy stuff. Unlock the main one, claim to have forgotten the keys for the juicy compartments, and you're keeping it around in hopes of remembering the key one day.

negidius 4y ago

Which means that someone who forgets their passcode because of the stress of being arrested and threatened with years in prison could easily be wrongfully convicted. It's a horrible law, even for those who don't care about privacy.

blibble 4y ago
I am not a fan of the RIP Act (and there's plenty more badness in there) but playing devil's advocate, without this specific offence the disclosure sections would be completely ineffectual (remember the UK also allows adverse inferences to be made from silence, it is not the US)
- flangola7 4y ago
  If you can't remain silent then what are you supposed to do to not accidentally incriminate yourself?
  - tristor 4y ago
    This is one of the reasons why other countries outside the US aren't as free as the US, even though the US is a complete mess too in different ways. Freedom of both speech and silence are not really respected in law anywhere outside the US to the extent that they are in the US.
    - kspacewalk2 4y ago
      Many many countries have rules against drawing adverse inferences from silence, including event Scotland, which is part of the UK.
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        Scotland really should leave the UK, and then rejoin the EU. They'd be better off.
        TeaDude 4y ago
        They also have apecific devolved laws that you can be arrested for illegal speech in your own home and your children can be interrogated about it.
        1827162 4y ago
        https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/29/sending-the-thought-polis-into-scottish-homes/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/29/sending-the-thought... Yes, the Scottish Hate Crime bill. And as expected, they are trying to expand it to cover misogyny. So someone's going to end up serving time for a silly joke they made in a pub. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-give-backing-to-make-misogyny-a-hate-crime-0lcfx6wtl https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-give-backing-to-mak... https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/11/why-misogyny-must-not-become-a-hate-crime/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/11/why-misogyny-must-n... https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/16/dont-make-misogyny-a-hate-crime/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/16/dont-make-misogyny-...
        flangola7 4y ago
        I'm not going to get upset if sexist jerks get a little readjustment.
        tristor 4y ago
  - barney54 4y ago
    You say nothing about the alleged crime and instead ask for an attorney. Remember this important advice—shut the fuck up. https://youtu.be/sgWHrkDX35o https://youtu.be/sgWHrkDX35o
    - flangola7 4y ago
      That video is about US law. The above comment says shutting the fuck up can be used as a negative inference against you in court.
      - Paul-Craft 4y ago
        Not if you get a lawyer, because as soon as your lawyer shows up, they say "My client invokes his/her right to remain silent."
        flangola7 4y ago
        What right to remain silent are you referring to? Can you link it?
- miles 4y ago
  > remember the UK also allows adverse inferences to be made from silence, it is not the US Even in the US, the law has changed rather drastically[0]: “The only way to prevent the government from introducing evidence of the suspect's silence at trial is to explicitly invoke (assert) the right to say nothing. In other words, without being warned by the police or advised by a lawyer, and without even the benefit of the familiar Miranda warnings (which might trigger an ‘I want to invoke my right to be silent!’), the interviewee must apparently say words to the effect of, ‘I invoke my privilege against self-incrimination.’” [0] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-how-invoke-your-right-silence.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-how-invoke-your...
yongjik 4y ago
IANAL but it sounds like this defense would be received about as well as "Your honor, the defendant was in grave stress of being arrested and threatened with years in prison. That's why he completely forgot why and how he parked his car next to Crosby Lake and was walking in the shallow water, carrying an identified bag, at 3am."
- mike_hock 4y ago
  So basically that just proves the parent poster's point because the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove that the defendant was carrying a bag containing a body and the defendant is under no obligation to remember or justify parking his car by the lake at 3am and walking around.
- bippihippi1 4y ago
  The defendant didn't admit to a crime and wouldn't open their house to unreasonable search. how suspicious

counttheforks 4y ago

right, you are explaining why the law is ridiculous and unfair

yencabulator 4y ago

The lesson to take away from that is to have a smaller compartment (or multiple) inside the computer that contains all the juicy stuff. Unlock the main one, claim to have forgotten the keys for the juicy compartments, and you're keeping it around in hopes of remembering the key one day.