5 ms·

I do wonder if the masses always end up voting in fascists every 50 years or so simply because they forgot that there were some things worth fighting for. Does

I do wonder if the masses always end up voting in fascists every 50 years or so simply because they forgot that there were some things worth fighting for. Does it feel like to anyone else we are on the precipice of extremely big changes that might not be good for anyone?

robswc 4y ago
I think this is a big part of it. I remember growing up reading Harrison Bergeron (in school) and always thinking there's no way such a system would ever come about by the will of the people... yet SF proves people are all too happy to implement such a system (tearing down gifted students for the perceived benefit of everyone else). SSDD.
- vkou 4y ago
  Of all the insane, repressive and straight-up authoritarian systems in the United States today, you picked... A failed pilot for middle-school algebra in SF?
  - cscurmudgeon 4y ago
    It wasn't just a failed pilot: It was a pilot which prevented advanced students from taking algebra. Lines up with Harrison Bergeron perfectly. And on top of it they claimed it was a success as failure rates went down. The failure rate went down because nobody was being tested. https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/algebra-for-none-fails-in-san-francisco https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/algebra-for-none-fails-in-... > The district had bragged that algebra failure rates had dropped. Families for San Francisco, a parent group, analyzed the data: Failure rates dropped after the district dropped the end-of-course exam.
Loughla 4y ago
I don't think it's forgetting that some things are worth fighting for. I think it's that, after a fascist government is ousted via violence, people spend so much time and effort to demonize them, that Joe Blow on the street doesn't see them as 'Us' anymore. We would never make decisions like They made, so We don't have to worry if Our leader is a fascist. Our leader is nothing like Their leader was, other than in absolute power. Our leader has our best interests in mind. Their leader was just a power hungry madman. When we remove the humanity from the monsters, we fail to remember that we could be monsters, too.
- all2 4y ago
  As social creatures, humans tend to defer to authority and go with the flow. Both of these make for disastrous outcomes, depending on the authority deferred to and the direction of the flow. Why did so many turn a blind eye to the Holocaust? Why did so many ignore the Holodomor? Why did no one stand against great evil? Presently, there is debate about whether there is true Evil, as well as some absolute Truth. And if there's no foundation on which to build a case of "this is evil", then why would anyone act? Couple that with the fact that -- at least in the United States -- it is legal for the government to propagandize (re lie) the American peoples, and you have a perfect storm of stress and lies that leads to "I'm alone and there's nothing I can do in face of all that is terrible". What is one man to do? The one man at Tianeman Square became an emblem of standing up to tyranny. What if there had been another with him? Or ten more? Solzhenitsyn claims that a little resistance would have completely disabled the Russian Communists.
  - justinclift 4y ago
    > The one man at Tianeman Square became an emblem of standing up to tyranny. And was never seen again. :/
    - all2 4y ago
      This is the big deterrent. People have families they need to worry about. My SO was telling me to be careful about the things I talk about because it could cost me my job. I'm not sure where the line in the sand is.
  - vkou 4y ago
    > Solzhenitsyn claims that a little resistance would have completely disabled the Russian Communists. The Russian civil war lasted six years, was a bit more than 'a little resistance', killed ten million people, and it didn't quite achieve the desired effect. If anything, it grew and encouraged the winners' paranoia, and put them on a permanent war footing.
    - 4y ago
iepathos 4y ago
Can't forget things they never experienced. Most of the voters weren't alive 50 years ago or more like 78 years ago if you're looking to the end of ww2.
- toyg 4y ago
  Knowledge can be transmitted, if it doesn't happen (or significant distortions happen) is because we have societal failures.
phpisthebest 4y ago
Strauss–Howe generational theory holds that upheaval or major crisis (like a world war) occurs every 80-100 years If that holds true the next fews years are going to be interesting
- than3 4y ago
  It will definitely be interesting times. It usually starts with lack of representation, then coercion and then compulsion. I'd say its probably closer to 60 years, all you really need is one bad large generational cohort to get the snowball rolling, and then it becomes almost impossible to reverse, 2 generations down; with the standard generational time period being 20 years.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    Lucky me that I am set to retire (15-20 years from now) about the time this will all kick off on the terrible side of that cycle... unless ofcourse we get WWIII early due to Russia....

robswc 4y ago

I think this is a big part of it. I remember growing up reading Harrison Bergeron (in school) and always thinking there's no way such a system would ever come about by the will of the people... yet SF proves people are all too happy to implement such a system (tearing down gifted students for the perceived benefit of everyone else). SSDD.

vkou 4y ago
Of all the insane, repressive and straight-up authoritarian systems in the United States today, you picked... A failed pilot for middle-school algebra in SF?
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  It wasn't just a failed pilot: It was a pilot which prevented advanced students from taking algebra. Lines up with Harrison Bergeron perfectly. And on top of it they claimed it was a success as failure rates went down. The failure rate went down because nobody was being tested. https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/algebra-for-none-fails-in-san-francisco https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/algebra-for-none-fails-in-... > The district had bragged that algebra failure rates had dropped. Families for San Francisco, a parent group, analyzed the data: Failure rates dropped after the district dropped the end-of-course exam.

Loughla 4y ago

I don't think it's forgetting that some things are worth fighting for. I think it's that, after a fascist government is ousted via violence, people spend so much time and effort to demonize them, that Joe Blow on the street doesn't see them as 'Us' anymore. We would never make decisions like They made, so We don't have to worry if Our leader is a fascist. Our leader is nothing like Their leader was, other than in absolute power. Our leader has our best interests in mind. Their leader was just a power hungry madman. When we remove the humanity from the monsters, we fail to remember that we could be monsters, too.

all2 4y ago
As social creatures, humans tend to defer to authority and go with the flow. Both of these make for disastrous outcomes, depending on the authority deferred to and the direction of the flow. Why did so many turn a blind eye to the Holocaust? Why did so many ignore the Holodomor? Why did no one stand against great evil? Presently, there is debate about whether there is true Evil, as well as some absolute Truth. And if there's no foundation on which to build a case of "this is evil", then why would anyone act? Couple that with the fact that -- at least in the United States -- it is legal for the government to propagandize (re lie) the American peoples, and you have a perfect storm of stress and lies that leads to "I'm alone and there's nothing I can do in face of all that is terrible". What is one man to do? The one man at Tianeman Square became an emblem of standing up to tyranny. What if there had been another with him? Or ten more? Solzhenitsyn claims that a little resistance would have completely disabled the Russian Communists.
- justinclift 4y ago
  > The one man at Tianeman Square became an emblem of standing up to tyranny. And was never seen again. :/
  - all2 4y ago
    This is the big deterrent. People have families they need to worry about. My SO was telling me to be careful about the things I talk about because it could cost me my job. I'm not sure where the line in the sand is.
- vkou 4y ago
  > Solzhenitsyn claims that a little resistance would have completely disabled the Russian Communists. The Russian civil war lasted six years, was a bit more than 'a little resistance', killed ten million people, and it didn't quite achieve the desired effect. If anything, it grew and encouraged the winners' paranoia, and put them on a permanent war footing.
  - 4y ago

iepathos 4y ago

Can't forget things they never experienced. Most of the voters weren't alive 50 years ago or more like 78 years ago if you're looking to the end of ww2.

toyg 4y ago
Knowledge can be transmitted, if it doesn't happen (or significant distortions happen) is because we have societal failures.

phpisthebest 4y ago

Strauss–Howe generational theory holds that upheaval or major crisis (like a world war) occurs every 80-100 years If that holds true the next fews years are going to be interesting

than3 4y ago
It will definitely be interesting times. It usually starts with lack of representation, then coercion and then compulsion. I'd say its probably closer to 60 years, all you really need is one bad large generational cohort to get the snowball rolling, and then it becomes almost impossible to reverse, 2 generations down; with the standard generational time period being 20 years.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Lucky me that I am set to retire (15-20 years from now) about the time this will all kick off on the terrible side of that cycle... unless ofcourse we get WWIII early due to Russia....