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I agree with your first paragraph here, but that's about it. I know that the userbase on a site like this one tends to want to solve these types of issues with

I agree with your first paragraph here, but that's about it. I know that the userbase on a site like this one tends to want to solve these types of issues with technology, but that's just because all we've got here on HN is a hammer, ya know? Pencil-and-paper works. Anything else is a solution in search of a problem.

ceejayoz 4y ago
> Pencil-and-paper works. Paper has its own issues, effectively illustrated by photos from 2000: https://imgur.com/a/lpDhmQP https://imgur.com/a/lpDhmQP
- fknorangesite 4y ago
  "Hanging chads" is a fundamentally difference system than 'put an X in the circle', and your screenshot here demonstrates a potential issue with accessibility, but not with ballot integrity.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    "Is that an X?" https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/vote-with-a-smiley-face-electoral-guide-says-x-doesnt-have-to-mark-the-spot https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/vote-with-a... > The official body supervising the British general election on Thursday has said votes should be counted if support is expressed by the drawing of a smiley face, instead of a cross, as is requested at the top of the ballot paper. > Also permitted is writing “yes”, and drawings that may well be accepted are those of a flower, and sketches of naked people, though best if they are smiling. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/204c.22 https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/204c.22 > If a mark (X) is made out of its proper place, but so near a name or space as to indicate clearly the voter's intent, the vote shall be counted. > If the names of two candidates have been marked, and an attempt has been made to erase or obliterate one of the marks, a vote shall be counted for the remaining marked candidate. If an attempt has been made to obliterate a write-in name a vote shall be counted for the remaining write-in name or marked candidate.
    - daveguy 4y ago
      First, most US paper ballots are fill-in-the-bubble, with pen, and any sufficient mark counts. This is so the large number of ballots can be counted quickly. Multiple marks for the same race is immediately rejected and you have the opportunity to correct the ballot. Ability to follow basic directions is the responsibility of the voter. Or, the voter can ask for assistance. Hand marked paper ballots allow for an audit trail. Paper allows the voter to check before submitting the ballot. Paper allows easy correction by trading for a replacement. Paper works well. As is confirmed in audit after audit after audit.

ceejayoz 4y ago

> Pencil-and-paper works. Paper has its own issues, effectively illustrated by photos from 2000: https://imgur.com/a/lpDhmQP https://imgur.com/a/lpDhmQP

fknorangesite 4y ago
"Hanging chads" is a fundamentally difference system than 'put an X in the circle', and your screenshot here demonstrates a potential issue with accessibility, but not with ballot integrity.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  "Is that an X?" https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/vote-with-a-smiley-face-electoral-guide-says-x-doesnt-have-to-mark-the-spot https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/06/vote-with-a... > The official body supervising the British general election on Thursday has said votes should be counted if support is expressed by the drawing of a smiley face, instead of a cross, as is requested at the top of the ballot paper. > Also permitted is writing “yes”, and drawings that may well be accepted are those of a flower, and sketches of naked people, though best if they are smiling. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/204c.22 https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/204c.22 > If a mark (X) is made out of its proper place, but so near a name or space as to indicate clearly the voter's intent, the vote shall be counted. > If the names of two candidates have been marked, and an attempt has been made to erase or obliterate one of the marks, a vote shall be counted for the remaining marked candidate. If an attempt has been made to obliterate a write-in name a vote shall be counted for the remaining write-in name or marked candidate.
  - daveguy 4y ago
    First, most US paper ballots are fill-in-the-bubble, with pen, and any sufficient mark counts. This is so the large number of ballots can be counted quickly. Multiple marks for the same race is immediately rejected and you have the opportunity to correct the ballot. Ability to follow basic directions is the responsibility of the voter. Or, the voter can ask for assistance. Hand marked paper ballots allow for an audit trail. Paper allows the voter to check before submitting the ballot. Paper allows easy correction by trading for a replacement. Paper works well. As is confirmed in audit after audit after audit.