3 ms·

Something that no other human knows. Isn't that what college is about, broadening existing knowledge?

by __MatrixMan__ 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rcme 4y ago
Sure, but once you learn that new thing, an AI can learn it too and apply the knowledge more efficiently than you can.
- __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
  Right, which is why we need more humans learning new things: so the AI's can be even more useful.
  - rcme 4y ago
    I don't think you can really call "learning new things for the AI" recourse for an AI taking your job. Can you feed your family with new ideas?
    - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
      If they're the only thing in short supply--given that the AIs are superior at everything else--then yes I suppose I can. And if it doesn't turn out that way, we can always eat the rich until it does.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > so the AI's can be even more useful. That's an utterly depressing thought. It means we're slaves.
    - pixl97 4y ago
      You're already a slave to many things, you just accept them as status quo.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        Well, if you expand the definition of "slave" enough, I suppose so. But in reality, I have plenty of choice and freedom. If the only way I can live, though, is to feed my ideas to a master AI, then I really am a slave. I would argue that such a life is not worth the effort.
        __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
        When you had to put your ideas on paper to be paid for them, did you feel like a slave to paper? Do you feel like a slave to hypertext and markdown? Publishing as contributions towards weights in a statistical model isn't significantly different. It's just easier to query.
        JohnFen 4y ago
        No, for two main reasons. First, the purpose of my effort was not to enrich the paper, or enrich the web server. Second, because those things are my tools, not my competition. Paper is not going to make it so that there is no work available, nor are webservers. AI (as proponents expect it to be) will replace the majority of people's jobs.
    - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
      Does it? It seems to me like a milestone in the quest to eliminate scarcity (which is why we bother with having an economy in the first place, right?). We suck at collaborating. If an AI can mediate collaboration across time and space so that its as if every problem has precisely the right expertise at hand for its solving--even though the actual experts are on vacation--that's a win. If its a win that's incompatible with our habit of letting markets handle everything, then so much the worse for markets.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        I honestly don't see the win there. If AI means that every problem has the right expertise even if the humans aren't there, that means the humans are dispensable. Which means they will be dispensed with. Why would any business employ people when they have a cheaper option? I can't see a field that this doesn't hold true with. What will happen when there's no work available at all for most people? How will they pay bills, eat, and so forth? If the enthusiasts are correct about the direction AI is going, I honestly can't see any way this ends up good for anybody but a small group of people. (To the downvoters: please, tell me how I'm wrong. I really do want to be wrong here!)
        __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
        > How will they pay bills? If the problem that we're facing is a surplus of labor, then what do we need money for?
        JohnFen 4y ago
        Because nothing comes for free, and it's certainly not going to start anytime soon.
        __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
        Why not? Don't you think that axiom will have to be retired sooner or later?
digging 4y ago
only in an abstract, idealistic sense. in reality, it is about developing job skills for certain classes of jobs.
Arainach 4y ago
Doctoral-level, perhaps. Undergraduate work generally is not. It broadens an individual's knowledge and develops skills related to how to problem solve and learn, but the vast majority of undergraduate degrees will not involve broadening humanity's knowledge. I put non-thesis Masters' programs in the same classification.
hhhrmmm322 4y ago
Nope. It's mostly about maintaining the class structure, and at least at first this was openly the goal, we've just done a good job starting to pretend that isn't what it is about within the past 60 years or so. Research still happened before all that, it was just funded directly by a patron, which is actually kind of how trying to get a grant works today.
olddustytrail 4y ago
You had a pretty amazing college! Well, or...
- __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
  I actually kind of detest my local college--as colleges go. But not enough to move, so I make do. What I lack in quality I make up for in quantity. Been going for 15 years (mostly just a class or two at a time). It's fun.

Something that no other human knows. Isn't that what college is about, broadening existing knowledge?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rcme 4y ago

Sure, but once you learn that new thing, an AI can learn it too and apply the knowledge more efficiently than you can.

__MatrixMan__ 4y ago
Right, which is why we need more humans learning new things: so the AI's can be even more useful.
- rcme 4y ago
  I don't think you can really call "learning new things for the AI" recourse for an AI taking your job. Can you feed your family with new ideas?
  - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
    If they're the only thing in short supply--given that the AIs are superior at everything else--then yes I suppose I can. And if it doesn't turn out that way, we can always eat the rich until it does.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > so the AI's can be even more useful. That's an utterly depressing thought. It means we're slaves.
  - pixl97 4y ago
    You're already a slave to many things, you just accept them as status quo.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      Well, if you expand the definition of "slave" enough, I suppose so. But in reality, I have plenty of choice and freedom. If the only way I can live, though, is to feed my ideas to a master AI, then I really am a slave. I would argue that such a life is not worth the effort.
      - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
        When you had to put your ideas on paper to be paid for them, did you feel like a slave to paper? Do you feel like a slave to hypertext and markdown? Publishing as contributions towards weights in a statistical model isn't significantly different. It's just easier to query.
        JohnFen 4y ago
        No, for two main reasons. First, the purpose of my effort was not to enrich the paper, or enrich the web server. Second, because those things are my tools, not my competition. Paper is not going to make it so that there is no work available, nor are webservers. AI (as proponents expect it to be) will replace the majority of people's jobs.
  - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
    Does it? It seems to me like a milestone in the quest to eliminate scarcity (which is why we bother with having an economy in the first place, right?). We suck at collaborating. If an AI can mediate collaboration across time and space so that its as if every problem has precisely the right expertise at hand for its solving--even though the actual experts are on vacation--that's a win. If its a win that's incompatible with our habit of letting markets handle everything, then so much the worse for markets.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      I honestly don't see the win there. If AI means that every problem has the right expertise even if the humans aren't there, that means the humans are dispensable. Which means they will be dispensed with. Why would any business employ people when they have a cheaper option? I can't see a field that this doesn't hold true with. What will happen when there's no work available at all for most people? How will they pay bills, eat, and so forth? If the enthusiasts are correct about the direction AI is going, I honestly can't see any way this ends up good for anybody but a small group of people. (To the downvoters: please, tell me how I'm wrong. I really do want to be wrong here!)
      - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
        > How will they pay bills? If the problem that we're facing is a surplus of labor, then what do we need money for?
        JohnFen 4y ago
        Because nothing comes for free, and it's certainly not going to start anytime soon.
        __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
        Why not? Don't you think that axiom will have to be retired sooner or later?

digging 4y ago

only in an abstract, idealistic sense. in reality, it is about developing job skills for certain classes of jobs.

Arainach 4y ago

Doctoral-level, perhaps. Undergraduate work generally is not. It broadens an individual's knowledge and develops skills related to how to problem solve and learn, but the vast majority of undergraduate degrees will not involve broadening humanity's knowledge. I put non-thesis Masters' programs in the same classification.

hhhrmmm322 4y ago

Nope. It's mostly about maintaining the class structure, and at least at first this was openly the goal, we've just done a good job starting to pretend that isn't what it is about within the past 60 years or so. Research still happened before all that, it was just funded directly by a patron, which is actually kind of how trying to get a grant works today.

olddustytrail 4y ago

You had a pretty amazing college! Well, or...

__MatrixMan__ 4y ago
I actually kind of detest my local college--as colleges go. But not enough to move, so I make do. What I lack in quality I make up for in quantity. Been going for 15 years (mostly just a class or two at a time). It's fun.