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Panopticon!? Why do Americans routinely still believe the UK is an exceptional, universal surveillance state? There were two studies done (in Kings Lynn in No

Panopticon!? Why do Americans routinely still believe the UK is an exceptional, universal surveillance state? There were two studies done (in Kings Lynn in Norfolk and in a section of Putney) that are full of mistakes, that US media has picked up as some kind of indication that the UK is down some dark path the same as China. People believe every residential street has police cameras (not even close to true) or that the _government_ operates "millions" of cameras (not true), or that there's nowhere you can go in the UK where you can't be immediately followed on camera. Most of the "millions" of cameras in the studies are, like most of the millions of cameras in the USA, pointing from the back of shop out through the glass at the front. If the police want those they have to ask, on foot, to the manager of the store, and the store manager may require them to have a warrant. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_Kingdom#Number_of_cameras https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_Unite... And then ask yourself: how different is it in the USA? (Throwaway because I am really done with commenting here, but this CCTV misunderstanding always makes me laugh. Here's a tip: the USA is not really very different. (Except that our police aren't armed to the teeth, you don't get nearly shot to death for going to the wrong house while black, and our politicians don't plan to put prisons next to theme parks to score points)

mardifoufs 4y ago
Your comment is basically just whataboutism. Bringing up racism in the US for no reason (in a way that subtlety denies the massive racism problem in the UK/europe) just to deflect from the debate of surveillance powers in the UK is quite the take. Especially when the comment you are replying to seems to be written by an austrian not the american boogeyman. It's weird that you only focus on the issue of CCTV cameras, when the debate is about much more than that. British authorities are allowed by law to engage in massive surveillance that does not happen even in the US (or at least, not overly and not fully allowed by the law). You might be ok with that, but it's weird to downplay it. >but it will also introduce new domestic powers, including a government database that stores the web history of every citizen in the country. [..] >Police officers will then be able to access a central search engine known as the "request filter" to retrieve this information. [..] >The key point about this power, though, is that it has no judicial oversight. Access to citizens’ web history will be solely at the discretion of the police, with a specially trained supervising officer approving or denying requests https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance-laws-explained-investigatory-powers-bill https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance... But I guess CCTVs are not as bad as internet discourse says they are, so whatever.
ChrisRR 4y ago
This always fascinates me too. America has been repeatedly shown to be systematically spying on their citizens via the NSA, make no apologies for it and continue to do so. But then any mention of the UK and americans are like "how do you live in a surveillance state?!"
- zamnos 4y ago
  Because there's a material difference between the NSA snooping on your metadata, and your local constabulary having video feeds of every corner of your village. Abuses by the NSA are bigger picture things that mostly aren't seen to affect everyday Americans. Abuses by the local constabulary are much more real to the community, like domestic abuse. Of course, I think a large number of Americans don't have direct exposure to the UK system, and have only seen it misused in popular media, eg Hot Fuzz.

mardifoufs 4y ago

Your comment is basically just whataboutism. Bringing up racism in the US for no reason (in a way that subtlety denies the massive racism problem in the UK/europe) just to deflect from the debate of surveillance powers in the UK is quite the take. Especially when the comment you are replying to seems to be written by an austrian not the american boogeyman. It's weird that you only focus on the issue of CCTV cameras, when the debate is about much more than that. British authorities are allowed by law to engage in massive surveillance that does not happen even in the US (or at least, not overly and not fully allowed by the law). You might be ok with that, but it's weird to downplay it. >but it will also introduce new domestic powers, including a government database that stores the web history of every citizen in the country. [..] >Police officers will then be able to access a central search engine known as the "request filter" to retrieve this information. [..] >The key point about this power, though, is that it has no judicial oversight. Access to citizens’ web history will be solely at the discretion of the police, with a specially trained supervising officer approving or denying requests https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance-laws-explained-investigatory-powers-bill https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/23/13718768/uk-surveillance... But I guess CCTVs are not as bad as internet discourse says they are, so whatever.

ChrisRR 4y ago

This always fascinates me too. America has been repeatedly shown to be systematically spying on their citizens via the NSA, make no apologies for it and continue to do so. But then any mention of the UK and americans are like "how do you live in a surveillance state?!"

zamnos 4y ago
Because there's a material difference between the NSA snooping on your metadata, and your local constabulary having video feeds of every corner of your village. Abuses by the NSA are bigger picture things that mostly aren't seen to affect everyday Americans. Abuses by the local constabulary are much more real to the community, like domestic abuse. Of course, I think a large number of Americans don't have direct exposure to the UK system, and have only seen it misused in popular media, eg Hot Fuzz.