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Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. The Lisa is clearl

Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. The Lisa is clearly derived from bits of the Alto, but it wound up being very similar in terms of capabilities and target market as the Star. The Mac happened after both the Star and Lisa. The OP's assertion that Jobs saw the Star before the Mac was started in earnest is completely relevant. Though... most of the relevant features of the Star were present in the Lisa. Both the Lisa team at Apple and the Star team at Xerox were trying to make very similar machines (in no small part because Apple lured several PARC people away to work on the Lisa.) But Jef Raskin's idea of an "information appliance" is definitely present in the Mac in a way that is not seen in the Lisa.

AlbertCory 4y ago
A much better summary that Maursault, who seems to be triggered by any mention of Star. No one's claiming it influenced Apple. They both drew from the same influences.
- Maursault 4y ago
  > No one's claiming it influenced Apple. >>>> Nothing about the Star, which Jobs actually did come to Chicago and see at the intro, in May 1981. Then I misinterpreted your statement as a misguided attempt to be relevant, or you are simply trying to cover up your mistake in insinuating Mac owes something to Star.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    "insinuating" -- I think you're projecting here. Never said that, never would say that.
    - retrocryptid 4y ago
      I would say the Star influenced Apple. They saw how bad it's sales figures were and said "Let's not do THAT!" and then noticed they had built the Lisa to target essentially the same market with the same "task based software" (i.e. - limited 3rd party apps) strategy. The comparative failure of both the Lisa and the Star in terms of sales figures most certainly should have raised the profile of the Mac within Apple's executive ranks.
      - AlbertCory 4y ago
        So it served as a bad example. Makes me proud /s It reminds me of the Thomas Edison quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8287-i-have-not-failed-i-ve-just-found-10-000-ways-that https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8287-i-have-not-failed-i-ve...
Maursault 4y ago
>> Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. Please draw a line delineating Lisa development and Mac development. The origin of Mac development is in the development of Lisa which arguably began the day Apple visited Xerox Parc to demo Alto. There is a transitive action here, without Alto, there's no Lisa, and there's no Mac. Thus my statement that Mac development began in the late 70's is generally true even if the Mac team was not organized until 1981. While your arguing the differences between Lisa and Mac is a clear straw man, your, "Absolutely" is absolutely misplaced and strictly false.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  > Lisa which arguably began the day Apple visited Xerox Parc to demo Alto "arguably" doing a lot of work here. Your argument is wrong. Lisa was already underway then. His statements are well-grounded and correct, while you apparently just read a couple articles.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    > Lisa was already underway then. It really wasn't. While technically the project slightly predated Apple's visit to Xerox Parc, that demo drastically changed the the project's direction and goals to produce a product entirely unlike initially conceived, which was effectively an Apple ][ geared towards business, but to claim it was "underway" is false. > while you apparently just read a couple articles. This is an ad hominem argument. And his statements are false as I have proven with supported citation in another comment. Just a friendly suggestion, but if you can not tolerate criticism in any form, and are sensitive about acknowledging mistakes, immediately going on the offensive compelled to make personal attacks out of a sensitivity to pride, which is no virtue, and I am saying IF (I don't know you), then this behavior is classifiable clinically and often solvable through therapy. These symptoms in and of themselves aren't really the problem, it's the other symptoms, that go along with them, which causes those you care about to suffer, that are.
    - AlbertCory 4y ago

AlbertCory 4y ago

A much better summary that Maursault, who seems to be triggered by any mention of Star. No one's claiming it influenced Apple. They both drew from the same influences.

Maursault 4y ago
> No one's claiming it influenced Apple. >>>> Nothing about the Star, which Jobs actually did come to Chicago and see at the intro, in May 1981. Then I misinterpreted your statement as a misguided attempt to be relevant, or you are simply trying to cover up your mistake in insinuating Mac owes something to Star.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  "insinuating" -- I think you're projecting here. Never said that, never would say that.
  - retrocryptid 4y ago
    I would say the Star influenced Apple. They saw how bad it's sales figures were and said "Let's not do THAT!" and then noticed they had built the Lisa to target essentially the same market with the same "task based software" (i.e. - limited 3rd party apps) strategy. The comparative failure of both the Lisa and the Star in terms of sales figures most certainly should have raised the profile of the Mac within Apple's executive ranks.
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      So it served as a bad example. Makes me proud /s It reminds me of the Thomas Edison quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8287-i-have-not-failed-i-ve-just-found-10-000-ways-that https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8287-i-have-not-failed-i-ve...

Maursault 4y ago

>> Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. Please draw a line delineating Lisa development and Mac development. The origin of Mac development is in the development of Lisa which arguably began the day Apple visited Xerox Parc to demo Alto. There is a transitive action here, without Alto, there's no Lisa, and there's no Mac. Thus my statement that Mac development began in the late 70's is generally true even if the Mac team was not organized until 1981. While your arguing the differences between Lisa and Mac is a clear straw man, your, "Absolutely" is absolutely misplaced and strictly false.

AlbertCory 4y ago
> Lisa which arguably began the day Apple visited Xerox Parc to demo Alto "arguably" doing a lot of work here. Your argument is wrong. Lisa was already underway then. His statements are well-grounded and correct, while you apparently just read a couple articles.
- Maursault 4y ago
  > Lisa was already underway then. It really wasn't. While technically the project slightly predated Apple's visit to Xerox Parc, that demo drastically changed the the project's direction and goals to produce a product entirely unlike initially conceived, which was effectively an Apple ][ geared towards business, but to claim it was "underway" is false. > while you apparently just read a couple articles. This is an ad hominem argument. And his statements are false as I have proven with supported citation in another comment. Just a friendly suggestion, but if you can not tolerate criticism in any form, and are sensitive about acknowledging mistakes, immediately going on the offensive compelled to make personal attacks out of a sensitivity to pride, which is no virtue, and I am saying IF (I don't know you), then this behavior is classifiable clinically and often solvable through therapy. These symptoms in and of themselves aren't really the problem, it's the other symptoms, that go along with them, which causes those you care about to suffer, that are.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago