6 ms·

Please please MS just put someone in charge with taste who can veto this trashy rubbish. Whatever gains you're perceiving from this on your profit chart isn't

Please please MS just put someone in charge with taste who can veto this trashy rubbish. Whatever gains you're perceiving from this on your profit chart isn't worth the compounding deterioration of your products experience.

jimbob45 4y ago
On the other hand, Windows is on a lot of computers these days. They may be making absurd amounts of money off of this arrangement.
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  No, they aren't. The windows division has consistently shrank to the point it isn't even a top line revenue source for the company anymore and is rolled up into the experience and devices group with office, Xbox, etc. Windows is less than 12% of MS quarterly revenue and continuing to shrink: https://www.kamilfranek.com/microsoft-revenue-breakdown/ https://www.kamilfranek.com/microsoft-revenue-breakdown/ The company could totally lose all windows revenue tomorrow and barely notice it. In a few years it will probably be into the single digits of percent revenue and near total irrelevance. Windows is dead as any meaningful business for the company.
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    It still makes additional money rented on the cloud, does it not? Not sure how that is counted.
  - asddubs 4y ago
    putting aside that 12% is still a fair bit, I wonder how much value it brings them in more intangible ways, that would only become obvious if they "lost" windows.
    - zamalek 4y ago
      Developer mindshare. There are a huge amount of developers who want Windows (or really Visual Studio proper), and there is a meticulously tarred highway from Windows to Azure. The irony is that this bullshit will drive developers away, because they are some of the least likely to put up with it.
      - robocat 4y ago
        > There are a huge amount of developers who want Windows I watched rabid Windows fans that had been developing for many years slowly become disappointed apologists during the decade of 2010. They still use Windows and trust .NET and SQL Server, but they have had their joy slowly beaten out of them by Microsoft’s change of focus. Balmer yelling “Developers developers developers” on stage in 2000 was a sign of how important developers used to be to the company. I think Microsoft should get back to their roots and create a Windows Developer Edition for individuals & small businesses: remove all the consumer shit, fix the tasteless look, pre-install developer tools, charge $100 per year for it (with discounts to onboard anyone developing targeting Windows OS). Nice if they could come up with a GUI to compete with Electron (or at least an HTML slimmed down with inefficient features removed?). They need another VB6 too! (Disclaimer: I’ve not really used VB6). Pushing your developers into the arms of Apple Mac’s seems like a poor long-term strategy.
        rewgs 4y ago
        I know this will never happen, but I wish that they would go even a step further than that: I wish they would admit that, for better or worse, Linux is the desktop to corral around. A proprietary OS for BYO hardware is very simply a Bad Idea, both in terms of developers (because you're at the mercy of the OS developer's documentation only) and in terms of users (because software will always theoretically be more stable on an OS that a developer can crack open). So, rather than creating a Windows Developer Edition and charging for it, I would love to see them sunset Windows into a legacy/Enterprise-only OS that they charge a hefty fee for. And then I'd love to see them build a Linux distro that deeply interops with their services (i.e. their real money-makers) that they release for free. This new "Windows" would be the new OS that comes pre-installed on laptops by HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. It could look essentially the same -- perhaps their desktop environment could be called Glass (get it?) -- and it could still run win32 apps via Wine (which they would be a massive contributor to in this fantasy world of mine). A headless version could of course be available for servers running Azure. Etc etc etc. They could charge for support (i.e. the FOSS playbook that's been pushed the 70s). They could of course continue to create proprietary apps and modules that they charge for, I don't care -- for example, a CoreAudio/CoreMIDI competitor that only audio professionals would really need. I'm not naive enough to think that proprietary/non-free software will ever go away, but the OS is simply not the place for that. Platforms of all kinds benefit from being FOSS. I know that there's a great kernel down there, but Windows is just a mess. Just kill the damn thing. Let it die. I ran Windows 11 since it was released and recently switched back to 10 because 11 is just so unbearably bad, and I still only use Windows at all as little as possible, only when I have to for certain work. None of this will ever happen of course, but a man can dream.
  - dzader 4y ago
    You just linked to a graph showing how much they are making off of their services that these ads are pushing. They are definitely making a lot of money off of this.
    - gary_0 4y ago
      Bingo. Windows looks like a trashy billboard for Microsoft's other services because that's exactly what it is, because that's where the fresh money is.
  - chongli 4y ago
    Windows is the foundation of their Enterprise Services, Server Products & Cloud Services, and Office Products & Services, which together (including Windows) comprise 73% of their revenue. If Windows disappeared off the face of the Earth, all of that other revenue would go with it.
    - overthrow 4y ago
      https://react-etc.net/entry/microsoft-office-rewrite-to-react-js-nears-completion https://react-etc.net/entry/microsoft-office-rewrite-to-reac... > Microsoft Office rewrite in React.js nears completion Seems like even Microsoft is hedging their bets when it comes to Windows.
      - rafark 4y ago
        Interesting that people were mocking “scripting” languages when you have revolutionary stuff like openAi being developed in python. I don’t, however, love Electron. I’ve built a couple apps myself with it, it’s just that the DOM is too slow. If someone manages to create an engine that could remove the lag that you get when rendering and manipulating large amounts of HTML that would be fantastic. But right now it’s a subpar experience when compared to native apps.
- mihaaly 4y ago
  It is on at least one less computer than it could be. I decided not to have Windows at home (I'd choose Pro version as preference for several reasons). It is enough suffering with it working hours, I feel relieved almost every day when I can turn it off finally. They make no money here. Not from license, nor from advert or other whatever they try to push down the throat.
causi 4y ago
You should've learned having taste is an instant disqualifier for employment at Microsoft after Windows 8.
- loloquwowndueo 4y ago
  Ah i can see you never used windows 3.1.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    Win 3.1 wasn't much uglier than Win 8, but it was a million times more usable.
    - CRConrad 4y ago
      Win 3.1 was arguably less ugly than Win 8.
  - Loughla 4y ago
    Honestly, with new resolutions, 3.1 may be exactly the look I want. Everything was grouped logically, and you had control over your OS.
- StrangeATractor 4y ago
  Nobody with taste would have allowed the Zune.
  - Minor49er 4y ago
    The Zune HD was a fantastic device. I still use mine from time to time
    - causi 4y ago
      The Zune HD UX is godawful. Not only do you have to both press a button and interact with the touchscreen to play/pause, skip, or adjust volume, but the relevant button is on the opposite end of the device from the headphone jack. That means it's sitting upside down in your pocket and you have to reach into your pocket and past the bulk of the device just to adjust the volume. The original Zune UX was a work of art by comparison. The buttons were on the face and recessed, so not only did they not get pressed accidentally, you could control your media right through the outside of your pants without even reaching into your pocket.
dahwolf 4y ago
The depressing part is that their design department (or possibly an agency they hire) make these really fancy UI vision videos. But then you use actual Windows and its UI trash.
jiggawatts 4y ago
You’d have to have the power to upset people, take their personal income (bonuses) away, or even fire them outright. People like this don’t get promoted in large established organisations. They have to be there from the beginning. All of the “asshole CEOs” are in this category. Think of Jobs, Gates, Elon, or Bezos. They all built massive corporate empires by not accepting garbage from their underlings, but this kind of brutal criticism is not nice. Eventually they get replaced by nice managers like Tim Cook, Sundar Pichai, etc… and quality starts heading downhill. It’s a corporate cycle that’s been going on for centuries.

jimbob45 4y ago

On the other hand, Windows is on a lot of computers these days. They may be making absurd amounts of money off of this arrangement.

qbasic_forever 4y ago
No, they aren't. The windows division has consistently shrank to the point it isn't even a top line revenue source for the company anymore and is rolled up into the experience and devices group with office, Xbox, etc. Windows is less than 12% of MS quarterly revenue and continuing to shrink: https://www.kamilfranek.com/microsoft-revenue-breakdown/ https://www.kamilfranek.com/microsoft-revenue-breakdown/ The company could totally lose all windows revenue tomorrow and barely notice it. In a few years it will probably be into the single digits of percent revenue and near total irrelevance. Windows is dead as any meaningful business for the company.
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  It still makes additional money rented on the cloud, does it not? Not sure how that is counted.
- asddubs 4y ago
  putting aside that 12% is still a fair bit, I wonder how much value it brings them in more intangible ways, that would only become obvious if they "lost" windows.
  - zamalek 4y ago
    Developer mindshare. There are a huge amount of developers who want Windows (or really Visual Studio proper), and there is a meticulously tarred highway from Windows to Azure. The irony is that this bullshit will drive developers away, because they are some of the least likely to put up with it.
    - robocat 4y ago
      > There are a huge amount of developers who want Windows I watched rabid Windows fans that had been developing for many years slowly become disappointed apologists during the decade of 2010. They still use Windows and trust .NET and SQL Server, but they have had their joy slowly beaten out of them by Microsoft’s change of focus. Balmer yelling “Developers developers developers” on stage in 2000 was a sign of how important developers used to be to the company. I think Microsoft should get back to their roots and create a Windows Developer Edition for individuals & small businesses: remove all the consumer shit, fix the tasteless look, pre-install developer tools, charge $100 per year for it (with discounts to onboard anyone developing targeting Windows OS). Nice if they could come up with a GUI to compete with Electron (or at least an HTML slimmed down with inefficient features removed?). They need another VB6 too! (Disclaimer: I’ve not really used VB6). Pushing your developers into the arms of Apple Mac’s seems like a poor long-term strategy.
      - rewgs 4y ago
        I know this will never happen, but I wish that they would go even a step further than that: I wish they would admit that, for better or worse, Linux is the desktop to corral around. A proprietary OS for BYO hardware is very simply a Bad Idea, both in terms of developers (because you're at the mercy of the OS developer's documentation only) and in terms of users (because software will always theoretically be more stable on an OS that a developer can crack open). So, rather than creating a Windows Developer Edition and charging for it, I would love to see them sunset Windows into a legacy/Enterprise-only OS that they charge a hefty fee for. And then I'd love to see them build a Linux distro that deeply interops with their services (i.e. their real money-makers) that they release for free. This new "Windows" would be the new OS that comes pre-installed on laptops by HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. It could look essentially the same -- perhaps their desktop environment could be called Glass (get it?) -- and it could still run win32 apps via Wine (which they would be a massive contributor to in this fantasy world of mine). A headless version could of course be available for servers running Azure. Etc etc etc. They could charge for support (i.e. the FOSS playbook that's been pushed the 70s). They could of course continue to create proprietary apps and modules that they charge for, I don't care -- for example, a CoreAudio/CoreMIDI competitor that only audio professionals would really need. I'm not naive enough to think that proprietary/non-free software will ever go away, but the OS is simply not the place for that. Platforms of all kinds benefit from being FOSS. I know that there's a great kernel down there, but Windows is just a mess. Just kill the damn thing. Let it die. I ran Windows 11 since it was released and recently switched back to 10 because 11 is just so unbearably bad, and I still only use Windows at all as little as possible, only when I have to for certain work. None of this will ever happen of course, but a man can dream.
- dzader 4y ago
  You just linked to a graph showing how much they are making off of their services that these ads are pushing. They are definitely making a lot of money off of this.
  - gary_0 4y ago
    Bingo. Windows looks like a trashy billboard for Microsoft's other services because that's exactly what it is, because that's where the fresh money is.
- chongli 4y ago
  Windows is the foundation of their Enterprise Services, Server Products & Cloud Services, and Office Products & Services, which together (including Windows) comprise 73% of their revenue. If Windows disappeared off the face of the Earth, all of that other revenue would go with it.
  - overthrow 4y ago
    https://react-etc.net/entry/microsoft-office-rewrite-to-react-js-nears-completion https://react-etc.net/entry/microsoft-office-rewrite-to-reac... > Microsoft Office rewrite in React.js nears completion Seems like even Microsoft is hedging their bets when it comes to Windows.
    - rafark 4y ago
      Interesting that people were mocking “scripting” languages when you have revolutionary stuff like openAi being developed in python. I don’t, however, love Electron. I’ve built a couple apps myself with it, it’s just that the DOM is too slow. If someone manages to create an engine that could remove the lag that you get when rendering and manipulating large amounts of HTML that would be fantastic. But right now it’s a subpar experience when compared to native apps.
mihaaly 4y ago
It is on at least one less computer than it could be. I decided not to have Windows at home (I'd choose Pro version as preference for several reasons). It is enough suffering with it working hours, I feel relieved almost every day when I can turn it off finally. They make no money here. Not from license, nor from advert or other whatever they try to push down the throat.

causi 4y ago

You should've learned having taste is an instant disqualifier for employment at Microsoft after Windows 8.

loloquwowndueo 4y ago
Ah i can see you never used windows 3.1.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Win 3.1 wasn't much uglier than Win 8, but it was a million times more usable.
  - CRConrad 4y ago
    Win 3.1 was arguably less ugly than Win 8.
- Loughla 4y ago
  Honestly, with new resolutions, 3.1 may be exactly the look I want. Everything was grouped logically, and you had control over your OS.
StrangeATractor 4y ago
Nobody with taste would have allowed the Zune.
- Minor49er 4y ago
  The Zune HD was a fantastic device. I still use mine from time to time
  - causi 4y ago
    The Zune HD UX is godawful. Not only do you have to both press a button and interact with the touchscreen to play/pause, skip, or adjust volume, but the relevant button is on the opposite end of the device from the headphone jack. That means it's sitting upside down in your pocket and you have to reach into your pocket and past the bulk of the device just to adjust the volume. The original Zune UX was a work of art by comparison. The buttons were on the face and recessed, so not only did they not get pressed accidentally, you could control your media right through the outside of your pants without even reaching into your pocket.

dahwolf 4y ago

The depressing part is that their design department (or possibly an agency they hire) make these really fancy UI vision videos. But then you use actual Windows and its UI trash.

jiggawatts 4y ago

You’d have to have the power to upset people, take their personal income (bonuses) away, or even fire them outright. People like this don’t get promoted in large established organisations. They have to be there from the beginning. All of the “asshole CEOs” are in this category. Think of Jobs, Gates, Elon, or Bezos. They all built massive corporate empires by not accepting garbage from their underlings, but this kind of brutal criticism is not nice. Eventually they get replaced by nice managers like Tim Cook, Sundar Pichai, etc… and quality starts heading downhill. It’s a corporate cycle that’s been going on for centuries.