4 ms·

> I've personally emailed with Herzfeld, recently. Did you correspond with him, or merely make it into his spam folder? > Nothing about the Star, which Jobs a

> I've personally emailed with Herzfeld, recently. Did you correspond with him, or merely make it into his spam folder? > Nothing about the Star, which Jobs actually did come to Chicago and see at the intro, in May 1981. False. See time index 5:51. Mac development began in the late 1970's, and development was well under way by the time Jobs demoed Xerox Star. The vast majority of inspiration for Mac came from Xerox Alto, not Xerox Star. In fact, little if anything was borrowed from Star for Macintosh.

AlbertCory 3y ago
> Did you correspond with him, or merely make it into his spam folder? he answered. > False. See time index 5:51. what's "false" -- that he came? I have a witness for that. And I was there myself.
- DerekL 3y ago
  “Nothing about the Star” is the false part.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    So there WAS something about the Star? I must have missed that. They gave a general history of the GUI, including IBM's room-sized attempt.
retrocryptid 3y ago
Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. The Lisa is clearly derived from bits of the Alto, but it wound up being very similar in terms of capabilities and target market as the Star. The Mac happened after both the Star and Lisa. The OP's assertion that Jobs saw the Star before the Mac was started in earnest is completely relevant. Though... most of the relevant features of the Star were present in the Lisa. Both the Lisa team at Apple and the Star team at Xerox were trying to make very similar machines (in no small part because Apple lured several PARC people away to work on the Lisa.) But Jef Raskin's idea of an "information appliance" is definitely present in the Mac in a way that is not seen in the Lisa.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  A much better summary that Maursault, who seems to be triggered by any mention of Star. No one's claiming it influenced Apple. They both drew from the same influences.
  - Maursault 3y ago
    > No one's claiming it influenced Apple. >>>> Nothing about the Star, which Jobs actually did come to Chicago and see at the intro, in May 1981. Then I misinterpreted your statement as a misguided attempt to be relevant, or you are simply trying to cover up your mistake in insinuating Mac owes something to Star.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      "insinuating" -- I think you're projecting here. Never said that, never would say that.
      - retrocryptid 3y ago
        I would say the Star influenced Apple. They saw how bad it's sales figures were and said "Let's not do THAT!" and then noticed they had built the Lisa to target essentially the same market with the same "task based software" (i.e. - limited 3rd party apps) strategy. The comparative failure of both the Lisa and the Star in terms of sales figures most certainly should have raised the profile of the Mac within Apple's executive ranks.
        AlbertCory 3y ago
        So it served as a bad example. Makes me proud /s It reminds me of the Thomas Edison quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8287-i-have-not-failed-i-ve-just-found-10-000-ways-that https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8287-i-have-not-failed-i-ve...
- Maursault 3y ago
  >> Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. Please draw a line delineating Lisa development and Mac development. The origin of Mac development is in the development of Lisa which arguably began the day Apple visited Xerox Parc to demo Alto. There is a transitive action here, without Alto, there's no Lisa, and there's no Mac. Thus my statement that Mac development began in the late 70's is generally true even if the Mac team was not organized until 1981. While your arguing the differences between Lisa and Mac is a clear straw man, your, "Absolutely" is absolutely misplaced and strictly false.

AlbertCory 3y ago

> Did you correspond with him, or merely make it into his spam folder? he answered. > False. See time index 5:51. what's "false" -- that he came? I have a witness for that. And I was there myself.

DerekL 3y ago
“Nothing about the Star” is the false part.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  So there WAS something about the Star? I must have missed that. They gave a general history of the GUI, including IBM's room-sized attempt.

retrocryptid 3y ago

Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. The Lisa is clearly derived from bits of the Alto, but it wound up being very similar in terms of capabilities and target market as the Star. The Mac happened after both the Star and Lisa. The OP's assertion that Jobs saw the Star before the Mac was started in earnest is completely relevant. Though... most of the relevant features of the Star were present in the Lisa. Both the Lisa team at Apple and the Star team at Xerox were trying to make very similar machines (in no small part because Apple lured several PARC people away to work on the Lisa.) But Jef Raskin's idea of an "information appliance" is definitely present in the Mac in a way that is not seen in the Lisa.

AlbertCory 3y ago
A much better summary that Maursault, who seems to be triggered by any mention of Star. No one's claiming it influenced Apple. They both drew from the same influences.
- Maursault 3y ago
  > No one's claiming it influenced Apple. >>>> Nothing about the Star, which Jobs actually did come to Chicago and see at the intro, in May 1981. Then I misinterpreted your statement as a misguided attempt to be relevant, or you are simply trying to cover up your mistake in insinuating Mac owes something to Star.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    "insinuating" -- I think you're projecting here. Never said that, never would say that.
    - retrocryptid 3y ago
      I would say the Star influenced Apple. They saw how bad it's sales figures were and said "Let's not do THAT!" and then noticed they had built the Lisa to target essentially the same market with the same "task based software" (i.e. - limited 3rd party apps) strategy. The comparative failure of both the Lisa and the Star in terms of sales figures most certainly should have raised the profile of the Mac within Apple's executive ranks.
      - AlbertCory 3y ago
        So it served as a bad example. Makes me proud /s It reminds me of the Thomas Edison quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8287-i-have-not-failed-i-ve-just-found-10-000-ways-that https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8287-i-have-not-failed-i-ve...
Maursault 3y ago
>> Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. Please draw a line delineating Lisa development and Mac development. The origin of Mac development is in the development of Lisa which arguably began the day Apple visited Xerox Parc to demo Alto. There is a transitive action here, without Alto, there's no Lisa, and there's no Mac. Thus my statement that Mac development began in the late 70's is generally true even if the Mac team was not organized until 1981. While your arguing the differences between Lisa and Mac is a clear straw man, your, "Absolutely" is absolutely misplaced and strictly false.