6 ms·

The new Harry Potter game is a perfect example. They went around screaming the game and JK Rowling were causing 'real world harm to trans people' which of cours

The new Harry Potter game is a perfect example. They went around screaming the game and JK Rowling were causing 'real world harm to trans people' which of course was BS. But the people trying to boycott the game couldn't leave it at that. They bullied and doxxed streamers just for enjoying a game without gender politics. Because of perceived slights they resorted to becoming actual bullies. We have come full circle.

Spivak 3y ago
I mean JK herself literally is, the game definitely isn't. If you've stayed out of this dumpster fire enough to actually not know you're probably better off. JK is a 70's-era radical feminist who's always been a little transphobic (that was the era, everyone was) but in this decade got sucked into the feminist-lesbian-to-TERF pipeline and dug her heels in when people started calling her out for it. Ever increasing levels of escalation on both sides later she's weirdly become the most prominent transphobe in the English speaking world and throws her weight behind hate groups like the LGB alliance. She even got a shoutout from Putin for it which is kinda funny. This is no way whatsoever justifies being mean to someone playing a video game but it's not hard to see how we got here. We live in a world where absolutely horrible people are so completely insulated from the consequences of their actions that the people who are harmed by them are pretty much powerless to do anything and have nowhere productive to direct that anger and frustration. In a less civilized time a mob would have shown up to her house with pitchforks years before it got to this point.
- ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
  Tweets do not kill people.
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    David Duke probably hasn't killed anyone either.
    - ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
      Forming a lynch party and burning crosses on people's lawns is different than tweeting "I think being female is an important part of being a woman."
      - throwawayacc5 3y ago
        Something even less benign than that, such as "men cannot get pregnant" is enough to be labeled a transphobe. If you went back as little as 15 years ago and told people "men can get pregnant" they'd rightfully laugh at you.
        Timon3 3y ago
        What usefulness does that sentence hold? It is true that in our society some people who you'd socially describe as men are able to get pregnant, because they have biologically female sex organs. We also know that following their social wishes (i.e. referring to them as men) dramatically increases their quality of life. Given these facts, can you really not understand why people see that sentence as transphobic? It doesn't accurately describe our social landscape, and it hurts some of the more vulnerable among us.
        throwawayacc5 3y ago
        >What usefulness does that sentence hold? What usefulness do objective facts and the truth hold? >It is true that in our society some people who you'd socially describe as men are able to get pregnant That is not true at all. It's actually a gross inversion of the truth, a foundational feature of Big Lies. There are trans-men, who are actually women, that may get pregnant, but they're by definition not men. They are human females, AKA women. No amount of cross-dressing and body mutilation will change that. >because they have biologically female sex organs Yes, they're women. Glad we agree. >We also know that following their social wishes (i.e. referring to them as men) dramatically increases their quality of life. "We also know telling schizophrenics that the coffee maker IS indeed an evil demon and removing them from the office will dramatically increase their quality of life." No, feeding into delusions will not increase their quality of life. >Given these facts "Given the fact that the coffee maker is a demon". >can you really not understand why people see that sentence as transphobic? "can you really not understand why not believing that coffee makers are demonic is schizophobic?" >It doesn't accurately describe our social landscape, and it hurts some of the more vulnerable among us. It does accurately describe our social and biological landscape. If biological realities, truth, and objective facts hurt "the most vulnerable among us", it sounds like they have a mental illness.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    This presumes the only thing she's done is make public statements but that's not actually all that important to my point so whatever. So look, I don't know, I obviously fall on one side of this issue but disagreement on it is more American than apple pie at this point. The idea that certain kinds of speech manifest in real life harm is the basis for hate speech laws around the world. I'm just gonna quote Germany's legal code because they distill what hate speech is better than I could. "Assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning an aforementioned group, segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population, or defaming segments of the population." In my view you can only say "la la sticks and stones" up until the point where all the dehumanizing speech turns the political tide and the cultural forces that keep people from wantonly harming particular groups fall apart and we get articles like * 2022 - https://reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-2022 https://reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-2022 * 2021 - https://reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-fatal-violence-against-transgender-and-gender-non-confirming-people-in-the-united-states-in-2021 https://reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-fatal-violen... * 2020 - https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-trans-and-gender-non-conforming-community-in-2020 https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-trans-and... * 2019 - https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgend... * 2018 - https://hrc-prod-requests.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/files/assets/resources/AntiTransViolence-2018Report-Final.pdf https://hrc-prod-requests.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/files/a... It's really depressing they can fill one of these articles out every year.
    - ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
      Isn't Germany a country where you get arrested if you insult a politician? Forgive me if I don't think highly of their "hate speech" laws. Also, 44 GNC or trans people were murdered in 2020 and I'm supposed to be concerned? How do we know they were killed because of their identity? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/09/pimmelgate-german-politician-police-raid/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/09/pimmelgate-g...
- hellojesus 3y ago
  Last headline I saw, she made a comment about how fake women were taking away from the progress that real women had made via feminist pushes of the past few decades. That comment doesn't seem inaccurate to me. What has she done to become the most prominent transphobe in the English speaking language?
- effingwewt 3y ago
  Oh I've seen it and no she literally isn't causing them real world harm, nor is the game. This is the same woman who made Dumbledore gay to appease Twitter. Retconned characters to different races to appease Twitter. What she took issue with was women being labeled as 'birthing person'. I can see how we got here, and claiming either she or the game causes people real world harm isn't disingenuous, it's outright lying. They also called her a literal nazi ti the point the BBC had to apologize after she had enough and sent lawyers after them. Twitter isn't real.
- slibhb 3y ago
  You have a theory that certain speech causes violence. Well there's no evidence of the alleged "tweets -> violence pipeline". If anything it goes the other way: as the amount of speech increases, there seems to be less and less violence. That aside, I find it interesting that you're honing in on JK Rowling. If speech really does cause violence, then lots of speech is causing violence, including speech with which you agree. It seems notable, then, that you're going after speech with which you disagree. Makes me think the whole "speech causes violence" argument is a ploy to attack speech you dislike.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jkr_fan 3y ago
  [dead]

Spivak 3y ago

I mean JK herself literally is, the game definitely isn't. If you've stayed out of this dumpster fire enough to actually not know you're probably better off. JK is a 70's-era radical feminist who's always been a little transphobic (that was the era, everyone was) but in this decade got sucked into the feminist-lesbian-to-TERF pipeline and dug her heels in when people started calling her out for it. Ever increasing levels of escalation on both sides later she's weirdly become the most prominent transphobe in the English speaking world and throws her weight behind hate groups like the LGB alliance. She even got a shoutout from Putin for it which is kinda funny. This is no way whatsoever justifies being mean to someone playing a video game but it's not hard to see how we got here. We live in a world where absolutely horrible people are so completely insulated from the consequences of their actions that the people who are harmed by them are pretty much powerless to do anything and have nowhere productive to direct that anger and frustration. In a less civilized time a mob would have shown up to her house with pitchforks years before it got to this point.

ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
Tweets do not kill people.
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  David Duke probably hasn't killed anyone either.
  - ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
    Forming a lynch party and burning crosses on people's lawns is different than tweeting "I think being female is an important part of being a woman."
    - throwawayacc5 3y ago
      Something even less benign than that, such as "men cannot get pregnant" is enough to be labeled a transphobe. If you went back as little as 15 years ago and told people "men can get pregnant" they'd rightfully laugh at you.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        What usefulness does that sentence hold? It is true that in our society some people who you'd socially describe as men are able to get pregnant, because they have biologically female sex organs. We also know that following their social wishes (i.e. referring to them as men) dramatically increases their quality of life. Given these facts, can you really not understand why people see that sentence as transphobic? It doesn't accurately describe our social landscape, and it hurts some of the more vulnerable among us.
        throwawayacc5 3y ago
        >What usefulness does that sentence hold? What usefulness do objective facts and the truth hold? >It is true that in our society some people who you'd socially describe as men are able to get pregnant That is not true at all. It's actually a gross inversion of the truth, a foundational feature of Big Lies. There are trans-men, who are actually women, that may get pregnant, but they're by definition not men. They are human females, AKA women. No amount of cross-dressing and body mutilation will change that. >because they have biologically female sex organs Yes, they're women. Glad we agree. >We also know that following their social wishes (i.e. referring to them as men) dramatically increases their quality of life. "We also know telling schizophrenics that the coffee maker IS indeed an evil demon and removing them from the office will dramatically increase their quality of life." No, feeding into delusions will not increase their quality of life. >Given these facts "Given the fact that the coffee maker is a demon". >can you really not understand why people see that sentence as transphobic? "can you really not understand why not believing that coffee makers are demonic is schizophobic?" >It doesn't accurately describe our social landscape, and it hurts some of the more vulnerable among us. It does accurately describe our social and biological landscape. If biological realities, truth, and objective facts hurt "the most vulnerable among us", it sounds like they have a mental illness.
- Spivak 3y ago
  This presumes the only thing she's done is make public statements but that's not actually all that important to my point so whatever. So look, I don't know, I obviously fall on one side of this issue but disagreement on it is more American than apple pie at this point. The idea that certain kinds of speech manifest in real life harm is the basis for hate speech laws around the world. I'm just gonna quote Germany's legal code because they distill what hate speech is better than I could. "Assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning an aforementioned group, segments of the population or individuals because of their belonging to one of the aforementioned groups or segments of the population, or defaming segments of the population." In my view you can only say "la la sticks and stones" up until the point where all the dehumanizing speech turns the political tide and the cultural forces that keep people from wantonly harming particular groups fall apart and we get articles like * 2022 - https://reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-2022 https://reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-2022 * 2021 - https://reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-fatal-violence-against-transgender-and-gender-non-confirming-people-in-the-united-states-in-2021 https://reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-fatal-violen... * 2020 - https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-trans-and-gender-non-conforming-community-in-2020 https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-trans-and... * 2019 - https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgend... * 2018 - https://hrc-prod-requests.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/files/assets/resources/AntiTransViolence-2018Report-Final.pdf https://hrc-prod-requests.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/files/a... It's really depressing they can fill one of these articles out every year.
  - ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
    Isn't Germany a country where you get arrested if you insult a politician? Forgive me if I don't think highly of their "hate speech" laws. Also, 44 GNC or trans people were murdered in 2020 and I'm supposed to be concerned? How do we know they were killed because of their identity? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/09/pimmelgate-german-politician-police-raid/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/09/pimmelgate-g...
hellojesus 3y ago
Last headline I saw, she made a comment about how fake women were taking away from the progress that real women had made via feminist pushes of the past few decades. That comment doesn't seem inaccurate to me. What has she done to become the most prominent transphobe in the English speaking language?
effingwewt 3y ago
Oh I've seen it and no she literally isn't causing them real world harm, nor is the game. This is the same woman who made Dumbledore gay to appease Twitter. Retconned characters to different races to appease Twitter. What she took issue with was women being labeled as 'birthing person'. I can see how we got here, and claiming either she or the game causes people real world harm isn't disingenuous, it's outright lying. They also called her a literal nazi ti the point the BBC had to apologize after she had enough and sent lawyers after them. Twitter isn't real.
slibhb 3y ago
You have a theory that certain speech causes violence. Well there's no evidence of the alleged "tweets -> violence pipeline". If anything it goes the other way: as the amount of speech increases, there seems to be less and less violence. That aside, I find it interesting that you're honing in on JK Rowling. If speech really does cause violence, then lots of speech is causing violence, including speech with which you agree. It seems notable, then, that you're going after speech with which you disagree. Makes me think the whole "speech causes violence" argument is a ploy to attack speech you dislike.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jkr_fan 3y ago
[dead]