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US-flavoured English has this type of "rap" as well, as in Raganwald faced the rap for making too many reddit-esque puns on Hacker News. The mods reviewed his r

by a4isms 3y ago

US-flavoured English has this type of "rap" as well, as in Raganwald faced the rap for making too many reddit-esque puns on Hacker News. The mods reviewed his rap sheet and determined that permanent expulsion was warranted for this transgression. I believe both descend from "rap" as a form of rebuke, in one case synonymous with criticism, in the other synonymous with a conviction in a court of law.

OJFord 3y ago
The rebuke sense is surely is figurative from physical rap ('rap on the knuckes', 'rapping on the door'), via 'take the rap' etc.
- a4isms 3y ago
  I agree that they are derived from the physical "rap." I am curious about is the origin of 'rap' as an informal discussion: I want to rap to you today—lyric spoken by Maurice White of "Earth, Wind, and Fire." I believe that's the origin of the noun Rap as a music genre, which is now mostly known as Hip-Hop.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    It's probably from the "rap on the door" sense, carrying the metaphor of visiting someone to talk. "Calling" on someone is a (somewhat anachronistic) similar idea. I'm pretty sure it's jazz talk, so I'd look at urban black culture of the early 20c. Could have ended up being knock music or call music? edit: your "rap" is (usually) how you talk to women, and going "calling" was once the same sort of euphemism.
    - OJFord 3y ago
      > "Calling" on someone is a (somewhat anachronistic) Way to make us feel old! I was at school when children started to have phones, through to MSN and early smart phones, but 'calling on' people was at least the bridge between that and RL interaction. (I'm sure we texted things like 'call on you later'.) Is it not still? Whatever the technology isn't there a need for that? Obviously language can fade independently of technology, but it was quite funny to note some of the same weird school playground phrases familiar to both me and my father at the same school(s) 30y apart.
karaterobot 3y ago
Surely "faced the rap" comes from a rap sheet, the Record of Arrests and Prosecutions, aka the documents inside the manilla folder you see in movies, in the scene where the detective whistles and says "looks like our guy's been busy..."
- zerocrates 3y ago
  I bet "record of arrests and prosecutions" is a false etymology for "rap sheet." OED attests "rap" in this sense of punishment back to the 1860s at least, and "face the rap," "beat the rap," etc., to the early 1900s. "Rap sheet," the 50s.
  - karaterobot 3y ago
    I mean it might be. It does feel a bit like "port out, starboard home" or "gentlemen only, ladies forbidden". Wikipedia uses it, but without citation.

by a4isms 3y ago

OJFord 3y ago

The rebuke sense is surely is figurative from physical rap ('rap on the knuckes', 'rapping on the door'), via 'take the rap' etc.

a4isms 3y ago
I agree that they are derived from the physical "rap." I am curious about is the origin of 'rap' as an informal discussion: I want to rap to you today—lyric spoken by Maurice White of "Earth, Wind, and Fire." I believe that's the origin of the noun Rap as a music genre, which is now mostly known as Hip-Hop.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  It's probably from the "rap on the door" sense, carrying the metaphor of visiting someone to talk. "Calling" on someone is a (somewhat anachronistic) similar idea. I'm pretty sure it's jazz talk, so I'd look at urban black culture of the early 20c. Could have ended up being knock music or call music? edit: your "rap" is (usually) how you talk to women, and going "calling" was once the same sort of euphemism.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    > "Calling" on someone is a (somewhat anachronistic) Way to make us feel old! I was at school when children started to have phones, through to MSN and early smart phones, but 'calling on' people was at least the bridge between that and RL interaction. (I'm sure we texted things like 'call on you later'.) Is it not still? Whatever the technology isn't there a need for that? Obviously language can fade independently of technology, but it was quite funny to note some of the same weird school playground phrases familiar to both me and my father at the same school(s) 30y apart.

karaterobot 3y ago

Surely "faced the rap" comes from a rap sheet, the Record of Arrests and Prosecutions, aka the documents inside the manilla folder you see in movies, in the scene where the detective whistles and says "looks like our guy's been busy..."

zerocrates 3y ago
I bet "record of arrests and prosecutions" is a false etymology for "rap sheet." OED attests "rap" in this sense of punishment back to the 1860s at least, and "face the rap," "beat the rap," etc., to the early 1900s. "Rap sheet," the 50s.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  I mean it might be. It does feel a bit like "port out, starboard home" or "gentlemen only, ladies forbidden". Wikipedia uses it, but without citation.