4 ms·

At least they did mention Engelbart and PARC. Briefly. Atkinson and Herzfeld are not exactly hiding under a rock. I've personally emailed with Herzfeld, recent

At least they did mention Engelbart and PARC. Briefly. Atkinson and Herzfeld are not exactly hiding under a rock. I've personally emailed with Herzfeld, recently. Nothing about the Star, which Jobs actually did come to Chicago and see at the intro, in May 1981.

retrocryptid 4y ago
Did I miss the reference to Larry Tesler? Seems you would want to mention him as he worked for Engelbart at SRI, with Kay at PARC and later at Apple as the head of UI/UX/HCI for the Lisa.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  And Bob Belleville. I don't actually know how much influence the Xerox guys had over Lisa/Mac. Not much, I'd bet. They were certainly aware of what Star was trying to do, but they probably thought it was a lot of bad ideas :). I guess you could consider that an influence /s
  - retrocryptid 4y ago
    Larry Tesler worked for Engelbart at SRI, Kay at PARC and then John Couch at Apple. He led the system software team and was instrumental in developing the Lisa UI/UX. Xerox guys MOST DEFINITELY had influence over the Lisa in that at least one of them (Tesler) moved from Xerox to Apple to work on it.
Maursault 4y ago
> I've personally emailed with Herzfeld, recently. Did you correspond with him, or merely make it into his spam folder? > Nothing about the Star, which Jobs actually did come to Chicago and see at the intro, in May 1981. False. See time index 5:51. Mac development began in the late 1970's, and development was well under way by the time Jobs demoed Xerox Star. The vast majority of inspiration for Mac came from Xerox Alto, not Xerox Star. In fact, little if anything was borrowed from Star for Macintosh.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  > Did you correspond with him, or merely make it into his spam folder? he answered. > False. See time index 5:51. what's "false" -- that he came? I have a witness for that. And I was there myself.
  - DerekL 4y ago
    “Nothing about the Star” is the false part.
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      So there WAS something about the Star? I must have missed that. They gave a general history of the GUI, including IBM's room-sized attempt.
- retrocryptid 4y ago
  Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. The Lisa is clearly derived from bits of the Alto, but it wound up being very similar in terms of capabilities and target market as the Star. The Mac happened after both the Star and Lisa. The OP's assertion that Jobs saw the Star before the Mac was started in earnest is completely relevant. Though... most of the relevant features of the Star were present in the Lisa. Both the Lisa team at Apple and the Star team at Xerox were trying to make very similar machines (in no small part because Apple lured several PARC people away to work on the Lisa.) But Jef Raskin's idea of an "information appliance" is definitely present in the Mac in a way that is not seen in the Lisa.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    A much better summary that Maursault, who seems to be triggered by any mention of Star. No one's claiming it influenced Apple. They both drew from the same influences.
    - 4y ago

retrocryptid 4y ago

Did I miss the reference to Larry Tesler? Seems you would want to mention him as he worked for Engelbart at SRI, with Kay at PARC and later at Apple as the head of UI/UX/HCI for the Lisa.

AlbertCory 4y ago
And Bob Belleville. I don't actually know how much influence the Xerox guys had over Lisa/Mac. Not much, I'd bet. They were certainly aware of what Star was trying to do, but they probably thought it was a lot of bad ideas :). I guess you could consider that an influence /s
- retrocryptid 4y ago
  Larry Tesler worked for Engelbart at SRI, Kay at PARC and then John Couch at Apple. He led the system software team and was instrumental in developing the Lisa UI/UX. Xerox guys MOST DEFINITELY had influence over the Lisa in that at least one of them (Tesler) moved from Xerox to Apple to work on it.

Maursault 4y ago

> I've personally emailed with Herzfeld, recently. Did you correspond with him, or merely make it into his spam folder? > Nothing about the Star, which Jobs actually did come to Chicago and see at the intro, in May 1981. False. See time index 5:51. Mac development began in the late 1970's, and development was well under way by the time Jobs demoed Xerox Star. The vast majority of inspiration for Mac came from Xerox Alto, not Xerox Star. In fact, little if anything was borrowed from Star for Macintosh.

AlbertCory 4y ago
> Did you correspond with him, or merely make it into his spam folder? he answered. > False. See time index 5:51. what's "false" -- that he came? I have a witness for that. And I was there myself.
- DerekL 4y ago
  “Nothing about the Star” is the false part.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    So there WAS something about the Star? I must have missed that. They gave a general history of the GUI, including IBM's room-sized attempt.
retrocryptid 4y ago
Absolutely not. The Lisa project started in '78. The Mac effectively started in '81 when Jobs horned in on Jef Raskin's Macintosh project. The Lisa is clearly derived from bits of the Alto, but it wound up being very similar in terms of capabilities and target market as the Star. The Mac happened after both the Star and Lisa. The OP's assertion that Jobs saw the Star before the Mac was started in earnest is completely relevant. Though... most of the relevant features of the Star were present in the Lisa. Both the Lisa team at Apple and the Star team at Xerox were trying to make very similar machines (in no small part because Apple lured several PARC people away to work on the Lisa.) But Jef Raskin's idea of an "information appliance" is definitely present in the Mac in a way that is not seen in the Lisa.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  A much better summary that Maursault, who seems to be triggered by any mention of Star. No one's claiming it influenced Apple. They both drew from the same influences.
  - 4y ago