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Armstrong says they did, and says they met to discuss things like this. We will see what happened in reality during the course of the court case. I don't think

Armstrong says they did, and says they met to discuss things like this. We will see what happened in reality during the course of the court case. I don't think it is wise to trust the words of any crypto actors.

wslh 4y ago
I don't agree with you. There are many actors in the crypto ecosystem and sadly the scammers and bad guys have, in general, better execution an exposure that the good ones. Personally I was involved in helping representatives in writing laws to move forward. If there is no guidance you can build an organization that could be destroyed arbitrarily in one day. SEC had enough time... I don't want to exaggerate but it seems like the financial establishment is really worried, and not precisely about money laundering and corruption. Those use everything as a tool, it does not matter if it is crypto or your "5 star" bank.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > bad guys have, in general, better execution an exposure that the good ones. So much better that I take it purely on faith that there are decent people in that space. I have to take it on faith, because I haven't actually seen or heard from any of them and so have no evidence that they exist.
  - wslh 4y ago
    I consider others and my company, good actors in the space: think about the space critically and giving transparent feedback and scenarios between the skepticism and the utopia.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      And you may well be -- but I don't know you or your company, so I have no way of knowing. The space is generally so tainted that it's not unreasonable to assume the people in it aren't exactly good until proven otherwise.
      - wslh 4y ago
        Logically speaking you are saying that there is no exist good people in the space. That is a really difficult assertion to probe. I am saying something simpler: there exist good people in the space. Then, you are saying "but I don't know you or your company, so I have no way of knowing.". Well, that is not my job, do your work if you want to change your mind. If you need help I can present you to good people but I assume you can do it by yourself. Also, again logically, saying that there is no good people in the space, we should first define good people in general. Not trying to sound pedantic but trying to show you that your assertion is about a lot of people, probably in the order or millions.
        stonogo 4y ago
        > do your work if you want to change your mind The point is that scammers are so prevalent it's not worth "doing your work." The ROI on vetting every player in a given transaction just isn't high enough to make it worth engaging. We don't have to do all this shit in the actual financial industry because of regulation and insurance. Nobody's presented a compelling reason to re-evolve those protections because blockchain. And yes, the assertion is about a lot of people. That's why we put locks on our cars and houses instead of vetting everyone in town. You keep arguing about symptoms without addressing causes.
        wslh 4y ago
        PayPal is full of scammers, it is not crypto. Even you can say that PayPal is wrongdoing in many aspects that will not resist in court. Just an example. Another example: land in NY, buy a mobile SIM there, go to the Central Park and in less than 30 minutes someone calls me telling me that I won the lottery. I am very lucky.
        arcticbull 4y ago
        Do you have some data on the percentage likelihood of being scammed in crypto vs in the traditional financial markets? Let's just cherry pick on DeFi. DeFi had something around 10% of its entire TVL lost last year to hacks and scams. I guarantee you that 10% of the entire 'TVL' of PayPal wasn't lost to hacks and scams. PayPal has almost 79B in assets. Pretty sure they didn't lose 8B to hacks last year. The fundamental character of crypto - a market where police and regulators look the other way, but money moves freely - whose biggest rocket ride to fame came from Silk Road - is perfectly suited to attract crime and criminality. Without crypto nobody would even remember ransomware because you can't send millions of dollars in Starbucks gift cards. This is its niche, like it or not. Because if you're not trying to do crime, classical finance is faster, cheaper and safer.

wslh 4y ago

I don't agree with you. There are many actors in the crypto ecosystem and sadly the scammers and bad guys have, in general, better execution an exposure that the good ones. Personally I was involved in helping representatives in writing laws to move forward. If there is no guidance you can build an organization that could be destroyed arbitrarily in one day. SEC had enough time... I don't want to exaggerate but it seems like the financial establishment is really worried, and not precisely about money laundering and corruption. Those use everything as a tool, it does not matter if it is crypto or your "5 star" bank.

JohnFen 4y ago
> bad guys have, in general, better execution an exposure that the good ones. So much better that I take it purely on faith that there are decent people in that space. I have to take it on faith, because I haven't actually seen or heard from any of them and so have no evidence that they exist.
- wslh 4y ago
  I consider others and my company, good actors in the space: think about the space critically and giving transparent feedback and scenarios between the skepticism and the utopia.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    And you may well be -- but I don't know you or your company, so I have no way of knowing. The space is generally so tainted that it's not unreasonable to assume the people in it aren't exactly good until proven otherwise.
    - wslh 4y ago
      Logically speaking you are saying that there is no exist good people in the space. That is a really difficult assertion to probe. I am saying something simpler: there exist good people in the space. Then, you are saying "but I don't know you or your company, so I have no way of knowing.". Well, that is not my job, do your work if you want to change your mind. If you need help I can present you to good people but I assume you can do it by yourself. Also, again logically, saying that there is no good people in the space, we should first define good people in general. Not trying to sound pedantic but trying to show you that your assertion is about a lot of people, probably in the order or millions.
      - stonogo 4y ago
        > do your work if you want to change your mind The point is that scammers are so prevalent it's not worth "doing your work." The ROI on vetting every player in a given transaction just isn't high enough to make it worth engaging. We don't have to do all this shit in the actual financial industry because of regulation and insurance. Nobody's presented a compelling reason to re-evolve those protections because blockchain. And yes, the assertion is about a lot of people. That's why we put locks on our cars and houses instead of vetting everyone in town. You keep arguing about symptoms without addressing causes.
        wslh 4y ago
        PayPal is full of scammers, it is not crypto. Even you can say that PayPal is wrongdoing in many aspects that will not resist in court. Just an example. Another example: land in NY, buy a mobile SIM there, go to the Central Park and in less than 30 minutes someone calls me telling me that I won the lottery. I am very lucky.
        arcticbull 4y ago
        Do you have some data on the percentage likelihood of being scammed in crypto vs in the traditional financial markets? Let's just cherry pick on DeFi. DeFi had something around 10% of its entire TVL lost last year to hacks and scams. I guarantee you that 10% of the entire 'TVL' of PayPal wasn't lost to hacks and scams. PayPal has almost 79B in assets. Pretty sure they didn't lose 8B to hacks last year. The fundamental character of crypto - a market where police and regulators look the other way, but money moves freely - whose biggest rocket ride to fame came from Silk Road - is perfectly suited to attract crime and criminality. Without crypto nobody would even remember ransomware because you can't send millions of dollars in Starbucks gift cards. This is its niche, like it or not. Because if you're not trying to do crime, classical finance is faster, cheaper and safer.