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If there were doing one lesson a day at 2 minutes per lesson, that would be about 36 hours of study total. Sounding like a third-grader seems pretty good for th

If there were doing one lesson a day at 2 minutes per lesson, that would be about 36 hours of study total. Sounding like a third-grader seems pretty good for that amount of study. Most estimates I've seen are more like 100+ hours to gain basic conversational proficiency.

hombre_fatal 4y ago
Besides, you’d have to evaluate them on the skills they were practicing which is mostly reading on Duolingo. You can easily end up dismissing someone’s language skills who can read the news and even books in a language yet can’t speak the language.
- deleted 4y ago
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- cranky908canuck 4y ago
  Agreed on this. One of the courses that I took (that didn't achieve the goal) was 'Reading Knowledge of $language'. The textbook said at the outset words to the effect of "To be fluent in $language and operate in that society takes years of study and immersion. This (book/course) is for those with less ambitious objectives, and less time to achieve them". I'd say that simply being able to read the Francophone news (this is Canada) would give a very different interpretation of how things are seen politically. Total mastery (able to pass for a native speaker) isn't the only valid outcome.
mistyvales 4y ago
Yeah I could have phrased it better, but my point is that they were doing more than just a 2 minute lesson a day for years and couldn't really communicate that well beyond very basic stuff, including not knowing proper conjugation structure.. which is fine I suppose - people can still understand you for basic communication. But then what's the ultimate goal? To post "streak" badges on Instagram? I know I'm sounding cynical, and I'm sure people DO actually learn a lot using the software, but I also wonder if it was used as a supplement to another way of learning that they'd be able to communicate better.
- cranky908canuck 4y ago
  I agree. I'm thinking that online exercises won't get proficiency. If that's all one does, it's just a game. What I'm seeing for me (and it's incomplete, it might be a fiasco in a year) is that it keeps me doing at least some daily roadwork. Once you get to reading news/magazines/whatever (that's how my father expanded his ESL vocabulary) or childrens books, you can start to work beyond. The real hazard is that once you break the chain, the incentive to do something (even when you are tired) is gone, then you probably drop it altogether. So I see the gamification of 'keep the streak' as helpful.

hombre_fatal 4y ago

Besides, you’d have to evaluate them on the skills they were practicing which is mostly reading on Duolingo. You can easily end up dismissing someone’s language skills who can read the news and even books in a language yet can’t speak the language.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cranky908canuck 4y ago
Agreed on this. One of the courses that I took (that didn't achieve the goal) was 'Reading Knowledge of $language'. The textbook said at the outset words to the effect of "To be fluent in $language and operate in that society takes years of study and immersion. This (book/course) is for those with less ambitious objectives, and less time to achieve them". I'd say that simply being able to read the Francophone news (this is Canada) would give a very different interpretation of how things are seen politically. Total mastery (able to pass for a native speaker) isn't the only valid outcome.

mistyvales 4y ago

Yeah I could have phrased it better, but my point is that they were doing more than just a 2 minute lesson a day for years and couldn't really communicate that well beyond very basic stuff, including not knowing proper conjugation structure.. which is fine I suppose - people can still understand you for basic communication. But then what's the ultimate goal? To post "streak" badges on Instagram? I know I'm sounding cynical, and I'm sure people DO actually learn a lot using the software, but I also wonder if it was used as a supplement to another way of learning that they'd be able to communicate better.

cranky908canuck 4y ago
I agree. I'm thinking that online exercises won't get proficiency. If that's all one does, it's just a game. What I'm seeing for me (and it's incomplete, it might be a fiasco in a year) is that it keeps me doing at least some daily roadwork. Once you get to reading news/magazines/whatever (that's how my father expanded his ESL vocabulary) or childrens books, you can start to work beyond. The real hazard is that once you break the chain, the incentive to do something (even when you are tired) is gone, then you probably drop it altogether. So I see the gamification of 'keep the streak' as helpful.