5 ms·
Arguments against: - Sand/Dirt - Excess Heat - Transmission losses - Political instability - Geopolitics (Algeria, other issues..) Arguments for: - Gets
by HopenHeyHi 3y ago
Arguments against:
- Sand/Dirt
- Excess Heat
- Transmission losses
- Political instability
- Geopolitics (Algeria, other issues..)
Arguments for:
- Gets around NIMBY
- ???
Panels need to be clean and cool (25c) to work optimally. Preferably close to where the energy is consumed.
Incidentally the interiors of many sunny EU countries like Spain are depopulated..
- toldyouso2022 3y agoWe are not dealing with NIMBY. NIMBY at least allowed the concept of owning backyards...
- pjc50 3y agoIn all fairness, the closer to the equator you are the more efficient it is (less atmosphere, shallower angle, more regular day/night cycle). And it's not so much "NIMBY" as a genuine land cost issue. We could do well to expand rooftop solar on large buildings, though.
- HopenHeyHi 3y agoPanels covered in sand after a storm are zero percent efficient. In extreme heat they are 25% less efficient. Transmission over long distances is not lossless.
- hef19898 3y agoDidn't prevent Dubai from installing GW upon GW utility scale PV plants years ago. So, since it was already done more than once, I guess we can consider it a solved problem.
- automatic6131 3y agoYou would be surpised how little power is lost over a long transmission distances. The hitch is the people that can make such cables have a long back order list.
- sophacles 3y ago"Fuel" is free, inefficiency is less of a concern. Keeping them clean is maintenance. All forms of generation have maintenance requirements. What is the cost of extra panels to overcome transimission losses? How does that compare to buying fuel at a more local plant? How much does keeping solar panels clean cost? How does that compare to keeping a gas turbine running?
- sega_sai 3y agoClose to equator tend to be more cloudy as far as I understand https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/85843/cloudy-earth https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/85843/cloudy-earth
- michaelt 3y agoAt least here in the UK, our solar panels generate 5x as much in the summer as in the winter. And yet home energy demand peaks in the winter, for heating (mostly natural gas, but we probably need to move off that) - just when rooftop solar is at its worst. Putting the same solar panels nearer the equator would produce power with less seasonality - and more total power too.
- HopenHeyHi 3y agoSolar panels on the moon are even less seasonal. How far away does it actually make sense to place them? Is your solar capacity and storage maxed out? How much would it cost to max it out? Is there a difference in practice between dependence on foreign gas vs foreign solar? Hint: you can store a lot of gas in case of supply disruption and immediately buy more from alternative suppliers. Whereas one UHV cable cut and you are left with no recourse for quite some time. Is Morocco a stable country? Per chance does it have any disputes with aggressive neighbors?
- ben_w 3y agoFWIW, 20,000 km with existing HVDC cables is 60% losses, and PV is so cheap that's not even a bad choice. Moon, however, needs wireless, and I still need to write up that blog post about what I don't like about space based energy…
- Tade0 3y agoGeopolitics is less of an issue because Morocco holds some of the largest deposits of phosphates in the world - a key component of fertilizers. If Morocco were too unstable for partnerships of this kind, the world would have been fucked already. Ultimately the biggest argument for is as usual: price. You can make this nearly as available and definitely less expensive than the ongoing European nuclear power projects, except maybe for that power plant in Belarus.
- HopenHeyHi 3y agoYou want to look at actual exports by country not reserves. Afghanistan is sitting on a couple trillion in minerals but you aren't getting that out reliably any time soon.
- Tade0 3y agoMorocco is currently one of the world's leading fertilizer exporters - they're using their own resources now instead of exporting raw material: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1278057/export-value-fertilizers-worldwide-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1278057/export-value-fer...
- scyzoryk_xyz 3y agoI’ve been to Morocco. They have a king who has a policy of investment into tourism industry and openness to visitors. Beautiful country, generally friendly people.
- Tade0 3y agoI think most of the bad reputation they have in Europe is there mostly due to people who never lived in Morocco. Or maybe it's the same effect as with the Schengen expansion: all the troublemakers moved west.
- fmajid 3y agoPhosphorous is the gating element for life, and probably the single most important natural resource: https://phys.org/news/2022-12-phosphorus-disruptedwe-sleepwalking-global-food.html https://phys.org/news/2022-12-phosphorus-disruptedwe-sleepwa...
- strken 3y agoMaybe CSP will finally have its day in the sun.
- fmajid 3y agoMIT has developed an interesting technology for self-cleaning solar panels: https://www.eetimes.com/innovative-approaches-tackle-self-cleaning-solar-panels/ https://www.eetimes.com/innovative-approaches-tackle-self-cl...