4 ms·

Larger vehicles are safer for occupants. This will lead to an increase in road deaths.

by xqcgrek2 4y ago

Gigachad 4y ago
They aren't. They have a higher center of gravity and often roll.
- prepend 4y ago
  They are. They also have a higher center of gravity and are more likely to rollover, but in genera SUV drivers are much more likely to survive crashes than car drivers [0]. But I think it’s hard to generalize as there are many safety factors and there are some cars that are safer than some SUVs (I survived a Chevy avalanche t-boning my Saab 9-3 that totaled both cars and had both avalanche driver and passenger taken away in stretchers and I took a cab home). But, generally speaking, SUVs are safer because they have such greater mass. And SUVs also have safety features. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/suv-passengers-more-likely-survive-crashes-flna1c9948205 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/suv-passenger...
  - kgermino 4y ago
    *safer for the occupants. They’re much more dangerous to others around them due to higher and more aggressive front ends, more weight, and less ability to see people around you.
    - argiopetech 4y ago
      I work hard not to run into people. So far, I've had a 100% success rate. I can't say as much for the people around me, so "safer for the occupants" is a strong selling point.
      - FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
        > So far, I've had a 100% success rate. With blind spots that big, how would you really know?
    - prepend 4y ago
      That’s an interesting point. It’s hard for me to find data on the extra danger that may exist for other drivers. As it stands now, there’s not much you can do about what other drivers drive but driving a huge SUV seems to improve your survival chances.
prepend 4y ago
I frequently have a train of thought for “why so many SUVs” and then remember a line from David Foster Wallace’s “This is Water” speech [0]… “ it’s not impossible that some of these people in SUV’s have been in horrible auto accidents in the past, and now find driving so terrifying that their therapist has all but ordered them to get a huge, heavy SUV so they can feel safe enough to drive.” This specific speech changed my way of thinking from considering all these soccer moms in SUVs as jerks sucking up resources into more nuance that maybe they have reasons for why they want a big vehicle and don’t mind paying extra for gas because of it. It also helped me when my adult child really wanted a big SUV as their first car even though they had no kids, no dogs, no sports with equipment. It was kind of inexplicable to me why they wanted a big SUV, but this quote made me relax and trust that they had a good reason. [0] https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/ https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/
- ericmay 4y ago
  A better observation than “maybe they’re scared to drive or have a good reason for getting a very large vehicle” would be: why does society force people who don’t want to or who are scared to drive into the drivers seat of a vehicle in order to participate in society?
  - prepend 4y ago
    That answer seems simple to me, because cars offer a lot of freedom to move and do things. As a society we can choose to completely urbanize, and some countries and regions do that pretty well. There’s not too much to choose from in the US to live car free, but it’s possible if someone really doesn’t want to drive.
- badRNG 4y ago
  > This specific speech changed my way of thinking from considering all these soccer moms in SUVs as jerks sucking up resources into more nuance that maybe they have reasons for why they want a big vehicle and don’t mind paying extra for gas because of it. If part of the reason one wants a big vehicle is for safety, they are unwittingly participating in an arms race to ever larger, more dangerous vehicles. This arms race doesn't make everyone safer: it disproportionately harms those who either choose not to participate or cannot afford to: pedestrians, bicyclists, scooters, motorcyclists, children, etc. (which are the types of transportation that we should incentivize the most to combat climate change and congestion.) > It also helped me when my adult child really wanted a big SUV as their first car even though they had no kids, no dogs, no sports with equipment. It was kind of inexplicable to me why they wanted a big SUV, but this quote made me relax and trust that they had a good reason. If we didn't litter our streets with absolutely massive vehicles, perhaps regular folks wouldn't need to drive a tank just to survive the daily commute. I don't fault consumers for making this choice. CAFE standards incentivized this [1], and regulation is what it will take to change incentives in a safer, climate-friendly direction. [1] https://me.engin.umich.edu/news-events/news/cafe-standards-could-mean-bigger-cars-not-smaller-ones/ https://me.engin.umich.edu/news-events/news/cafe-standards-c...

Larger vehicles are safer for occupants. This will lead to an increase in road deaths.

Gigachad 4y ago

They aren't. They have a higher center of gravity and often roll.

prepend 4y ago
They are. They also have a higher center of gravity and are more likely to rollover, but in genera SUV drivers are much more likely to survive crashes than car drivers [0]. But I think it’s hard to generalize as there are many safety factors and there are some cars that are safer than some SUVs (I survived a Chevy avalanche t-boning my Saab 9-3 that totaled both cars and had both avalanche driver and passenger taken away in stretchers and I took a cab home). But, generally speaking, SUVs are safer because they have such greater mass. And SUVs also have safety features. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/suv-passengers-more-likely-survive-crashes-flna1c9948205 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/suv-passenger...
- kgermino 4y ago
  *safer for the occupants. They’re much more dangerous to others around them due to higher and more aggressive front ends, more weight, and less ability to see people around you.
  - argiopetech 4y ago
    I work hard not to run into people. So far, I've had a 100% success rate. I can't say as much for the people around me, so "safer for the occupants" is a strong selling point.
    - FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
      > So far, I've had a 100% success rate. With blind spots that big, how would you really know?
  - prepend 4y ago
    That’s an interesting point. It’s hard for me to find data on the extra danger that may exist for other drivers. As it stands now, there’s not much you can do about what other drivers drive but driving a huge SUV seems to improve your survival chances.

prepend 4y ago

I frequently have a train of thought for “why so many SUVs” and then remember a line from David Foster Wallace’s “This is Water” speech [0]… “ it’s not impossible that some of these people in SUV’s have been in horrible auto accidents in the past, and now find driving so terrifying that their therapist has all but ordered them to get a huge, heavy SUV so they can feel safe enough to drive.” This specific speech changed my way of thinking from considering all these soccer moms in SUVs as jerks sucking up resources into more nuance that maybe they have reasons for why they want a big vehicle and don’t mind paying extra for gas because of it. It also helped me when my adult child really wanted a big SUV as their first car even though they had no kids, no dogs, no sports with equipment. It was kind of inexplicable to me why they wanted a big SUV, but this quote made me relax and trust that they had a good reason. [0] https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/ https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/

ericmay 4y ago
A better observation than “maybe they’re scared to drive or have a good reason for getting a very large vehicle” would be: why does society force people who don’t want to or who are scared to drive into the drivers seat of a vehicle in order to participate in society?
- prepend 4y ago
  That answer seems simple to me, because cars offer a lot of freedom to move and do things. As a society we can choose to completely urbanize, and some countries and regions do that pretty well. There’s not too much to choose from in the US to live car free, but it’s possible if someone really doesn’t want to drive.
badRNG 4y ago
> This specific speech changed my way of thinking from considering all these soccer moms in SUVs as jerks sucking up resources into more nuance that maybe they have reasons for why they want a big vehicle and don’t mind paying extra for gas because of it. If part of the reason one wants a big vehicle is for safety, they are unwittingly participating in an arms race to ever larger, more dangerous vehicles. This arms race doesn't make everyone safer: it disproportionately harms those who either choose not to participate or cannot afford to: pedestrians, bicyclists, scooters, motorcyclists, children, etc. (which are the types of transportation that we should incentivize the most to combat climate change and congestion.) > It also helped me when my adult child really wanted a big SUV as their first car even though they had no kids, no dogs, no sports with equipment. It was kind of inexplicable to me why they wanted a big SUV, but this quote made me relax and trust that they had a good reason. If we didn't litter our streets with absolutely massive vehicles, perhaps regular folks wouldn't need to drive a tank just to survive the daily commute. I don't fault consumers for making this choice. CAFE standards incentivized this [1], and regulation is what it will take to change incentives in a safer, climate-friendly direction. [1] https://me.engin.umich.edu/news-events/news/cafe-standards-could-mean-bigger-cars-not-smaller-ones/ https://me.engin.umich.edu/news-events/news/cafe-standards-c...