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"Blair was fairly restrained but after Brown came in, he opened the taps and government spending and borrowing skyrocketed. " That's an odd framing of events c

"Blair was fairly restrained but after Brown came in, he opened the taps and government spending and borrowing skyrocketed. " That's an odd framing of events considering Brown came in midway through 2007. Just before the 2008 GFC. You make it sound like he went Brown went on a spending spree on a whim ... that isn't what happened. Any increased spending that took place when he became PM was easily within the scope of the UK economy. And considering National Debt was well managed until then (during a time when Brown was Chancellor), your recollection of what happened is wrong. https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/ https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-nationa...

revelio 3y ago
Your own graph shows that during Brown's time debt went from 35% of GDP to 70% of GDP, and yet Labour had nothing to say on the topic of reducing government spending to slow down that skyrocketing rise. It was only after 2010 that the rate of growth slowed and eventually reached zero before lockdowns (a policy demanded by hard left academics) pushed it up to 100% of GDP. And that is exactly the point being made. Brown was in charge when the economy entered a crisis and yet was too left wing to slam the brakes on government spending in response. Voters reacted accordingly.
- Lolaccount 3y ago
  I'm borderline incredulous at your interpretation ... were you around in 2008? Do you not remember bailing out the banks? Emergency stimuli to keep the economy going from recession to depression? Decreasing tax revenue as the economy entered recession? And yet, you say Brown was too left wing to slam on the brakes on government spending? ... we would be finished as a nation if you were in charge. It's just me and you. I'm sure no one else is reading this. So I'll just say. I'm quite confident you have no idea what you're talking about. Either you were too young at the time, no idea how the economy works (especially during a crisis) or ... let's leave it at that.
  - revelio 3y ago
    Of course I remember these things, I was an adult at the time. You're maybe willfully misinterpreting my point. It doesn't matter why Brown spent so much money. What matters is that after he did so nobody in the Labour hierarchy adjusted to the new reality that they'd spent all the money, and they'd need to implement austerity via large budget cuts to try and reduce the suddenly massive deficit. The Conservatives did realize that, did make that argument, and the voters agreed with them. Which is the point I've been making all along. BTW it's very rich that in a thread where I'm having to remind people about the issues in an election that only happened 13 years ago, you're claiming I'm too young to remember what happened at the time! The economy, Labour's claims to be competent at it "we have ended boom and bust" etc followed by their Labour's inability to seem serious about the deficit remained an issue for years. Don't you recall Miliband's doomed notes-free speech and his subsequent political exile? That was in 2014. Even years after losing to the coalition, they still didn't want to talk about cutting public sector spending and voters reacted accordingly: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/24/ed-miliband-forgets-labour-conference-speech https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/24/ed-miliband... There's an analysis by Labour supporters here: https://labourlist.org/2010/05/why-labour-lost/ https://labourlist.org/2010/05/why-labour-lost/ "People stopped trusting the party and they didn’t believe what it said about foreign wars, the state of the economy, reform of Parliament and public spending"
    - Lolaccount 3y ago
      I entered this thread with a chart that presents data. I'm not interested in the politics of why the voters voted they way they did. And your assertions on that are like picking a few leaves off a tree and saying that they are the reason the tree grows. Your contention was that "Brown was too left wing to slam on the spending brakes". My contention is that the chart I posted would have looked largely the same whichever party was in power. The only difference would have been the degree and speed of action. And it was this that Conservatives got wrong and which I think that Brown would have done better with. He wasn't a good PM, but he knew what mattered on the economy. And you can run a clear line from the decisions that were made by the Conservatives at the time to where we are today. The mistakes made (David Cameron with Brexit, Austerity, and now political corruption and malaise) have effectively ruined the potential of Britain for decades to come. I'm not here to defend Brown, but I do understand the position he was in. Anything else is political garbage.

revelio 3y ago

Your own graph shows that during Brown's time debt went from 35% of GDP to 70% of GDP, and yet Labour had nothing to say on the topic of reducing government spending to slow down that skyrocketing rise. It was only after 2010 that the rate of growth slowed and eventually reached zero before lockdowns (a policy demanded by hard left academics) pushed it up to 100% of GDP. And that is exactly the point being made. Brown was in charge when the economy entered a crisis and yet was too left wing to slam the brakes on government spending in response. Voters reacted accordingly.

Lolaccount 3y ago
I'm borderline incredulous at your interpretation ... were you around in 2008? Do you not remember bailing out the banks? Emergency stimuli to keep the economy going from recession to depression? Decreasing tax revenue as the economy entered recession? And yet, you say Brown was too left wing to slam on the brakes on government spending? ... we would be finished as a nation if you were in charge. It's just me and you. I'm sure no one else is reading this. So I'll just say. I'm quite confident you have no idea what you're talking about. Either you were too young at the time, no idea how the economy works (especially during a crisis) or ... let's leave it at that.
- revelio 3y ago
  Of course I remember these things, I was an adult at the time. You're maybe willfully misinterpreting my point. It doesn't matter why Brown spent so much money. What matters is that after he did so nobody in the Labour hierarchy adjusted to the new reality that they'd spent all the money, and they'd need to implement austerity via large budget cuts to try and reduce the suddenly massive deficit. The Conservatives did realize that, did make that argument, and the voters agreed with them. Which is the point I've been making all along. BTW it's very rich that in a thread where I'm having to remind people about the issues in an election that only happened 13 years ago, you're claiming I'm too young to remember what happened at the time! The economy, Labour's claims to be competent at it "we have ended boom and bust" etc followed by their Labour's inability to seem serious about the deficit remained an issue for years. Don't you recall Miliband's doomed notes-free speech and his subsequent political exile? That was in 2014. Even years after losing to the coalition, they still didn't want to talk about cutting public sector spending and voters reacted accordingly: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/24/ed-miliband-forgets-labour-conference-speech https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/24/ed-miliband... There's an analysis by Labour supporters here: https://labourlist.org/2010/05/why-labour-lost/ https://labourlist.org/2010/05/why-labour-lost/ "People stopped trusting the party and they didn’t believe what it said about foreign wars, the state of the economy, reform of Parliament and public spending"
  - Lolaccount 3y ago
    I entered this thread with a chart that presents data. I'm not interested in the politics of why the voters voted they way they did. And your assertions on that are like picking a few leaves off a tree and saying that they are the reason the tree grows. Your contention was that "Brown was too left wing to slam on the spending brakes". My contention is that the chart I posted would have looked largely the same whichever party was in power. The only difference would have been the degree and speed of action. And it was this that Conservatives got wrong and which I think that Brown would have done better with. He wasn't a good PM, but he knew what mattered on the economy. And you can run a clear line from the decisions that were made by the Conservatives at the time to where we are today. The mistakes made (David Cameron with Brexit, Austerity, and now political corruption and malaise) have effectively ruined the potential of Britain for decades to come. I'm not here to defend Brown, but I do understand the position he was in. Anything else is political garbage.