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I never understand the thought process here. If you ban or cripple encryption by demanding backdoors, criminals will just use "illegal" real encryption and the

by catoc 3y ago

I never understand the thought process here. If you ban or cripple encryption by demanding backdoors, criminals will just use "illegal" real encryption and the rest of us will be stuck with unsafe "encryption" susceptible to mass surveillance and forementioned criminals. Explain the gain for society without using the words "terrorism" or "child porn"

notRobot 3y ago
The target of these laws isn't actually criminals, it's the masses. Criminals are just the justification they use.
- catoc 3y ago
  I guess we're making the same point.
  - notRobot 3y ago
    What I was trying to say was that the thought process never really involves actually wanting to bust criminals. It's about attacking civilians from the beginning.
    - catoc 3y ago
      Sadly you may have a point
Laaas 3y ago
If encryption is illegal, then hiding your crimes by using encryption might carry a big punishment regardless of what you're hiding. If you made the punishment of using encryption death, criminals would likely not use encryption for anything but the most heinous crimes.
- valdiorn 3y ago
  Exactly this. This is also how gun control in the UK works. In the UK, possessing a firearm is already a greater offense than most of the crimes you could commit with that firearm, shy of actually shooting/killing someone. This is also why I laugh when people say cryptocurrencies can't be banned. Of course they can be. It's an order of magnitude easier to prove someone has access to or owns cryptocurrencies than it is to prove they used that crypto to commit a crime. (Back to cryptoGRAPHY) - this is probably what they're going for - it's very difficult to prove you used encryption software to exchange information on criminal activities, so instead they just make the act of encrypting stuff illegal. The problem is; cryptography is everywhere, and is a fundamental part of how the modern world works. Trying to ban it isn't possible without breaking things like corporate VPNs, etc. - things that every day normal people will MISS. Ban strong encryption apps? You can literally just set up a VPS, SSH into it and use the "write" Unix command on the server locally. If the government can crack that you've lost all security on the internet.

by catoc 3y ago

notRobot 3y ago

The target of these laws isn't actually criminals, it's the masses. Criminals are just the justification they use.

catoc 3y ago
I guess we're making the same point.
- notRobot 3y ago
  What I was trying to say was that the thought process never really involves actually wanting to bust criminals. It's about attacking civilians from the beginning.
  - catoc 3y ago
    Sadly you may have a point

Laaas 3y ago

If encryption is illegal, then hiding your crimes by using encryption might carry a big punishment regardless of what you're hiding. If you made the punishment of using encryption death, criminals would likely not use encryption for anything but the most heinous crimes.

valdiorn 3y ago
Exactly this. This is also how gun control in the UK works. In the UK, possessing a firearm is already a greater offense than most of the crimes you could commit with that firearm, shy of actually shooting/killing someone. This is also why I laugh when people say cryptocurrencies can't be banned. Of course they can be. It's an order of magnitude easier to prove someone has access to or owns cryptocurrencies than it is to prove they used that crypto to commit a crime. (Back to cryptoGRAPHY) - this is probably what they're going for - it's very difficult to prove you used encryption software to exchange information on criminal activities, so instead they just make the act of encrypting stuff illegal. The problem is; cryptography is everywhere, and is a fundamental part of how the modern world works. Trying to ban it isn't possible without breaking things like corporate VPNs, etc. - things that every day normal people will MISS. Ban strong encryption apps? You can literally just set up a VPS, SSH into it and use the "write" Unix command on the server locally. If the government can crack that you've lost all security on the internet.