4 ms·

No, American suburbs are good enough compared to American cities that are just filthy. Cities outside of US are just fine for raising children.

ptero 3y ago
> Cities outside of US are just fine for raising children. Idk, there are many cities outside the US where I wouldn't want to stay more than absolutely necessary, let alone raise children.
- mcv 3y ago
  There's a lot of dangerous cities in the world. Lots of countries have weak governments unable to keep the peace, with social life disrupted by crime, strife, unrest, distrust. But there are also lots of countries that are much, much safer than the US.
  - ptero 3y ago
    US certainly has its share of horrible cities. That said, US is a collection of regions with very different social setups and it is easy to move between them. It is common, as preferences change, for youngsters to live for a few years in one state, settle to raise children in another, then move as empty-nesters to third. If safety is what one is after, one can find a place that is super safe, comparable on safety to anywhere in the world. Someone else would aim for nightlife instead. This flexibility is what makes US very livable for me. Just my 2c.
    - MavisBacon 3y ago
      Definitely this. I grew up outside Baltimore and went on to live in Boulder CO, Orange County CA, moved back home and then to LA on a whim. Finished school in Nashville, TN and my wife and I are about to get out and move to Maine. Zero red tape whatsoever- the flexibility and ease of traversing and moving around the USA is definitely awesome and rarely discussed in terms of the benefits of living here. There’s something for pretty much everyone and the culture varies greatly from region to region, city to city.
      - mcv 3y ago
        With freedom of movement, it's just as easy to move around the EU now. But I don't have to make a trade-off between safety and nightlife. But I've got to admit that Maine looks pretty safe according to https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/charts-and-maps https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/charts-and-maps
        ptero 3y ago
        First of all, I am not bashing EU or Europe -- great countries, great history, etc. But I would pretty strongly disagree on "just as easy to move around the EU" part. From what I understand it is super smooth for vacations, but not nearly as frictionless to move around semi-permanently. For example, someone graduating in Norway, moving to Spain for 3 years, then on to Germany would see friction in renting a flat, sending children to school or buying a house. If this is not the case, I would love to be corrected. Also, it sounds strange to me to look at guns as an inverse proxy for safety. I would, especially with kids, first look at drug prevalence and second at accidents on the roads (both cars and bikes). Which reinforces what I started with: the ability to select the place I want to live in based on my own preferences. Given a wide variety of options, both politically and socially, one can usually find a place they are happy in. My 2c.
        Symbiote 3y ago
        For school you may have language barriers, depending what language(s) your children speak. They're entitled to a place at school though. The only barrier to buying a flat or house might be slightly reduced access to loans. I found in Denmark it is easier for a Dane to get a loan for 95% of the house value, but foreigners might only get 80%. EU citizens are somewhere in the middle, depending what the banks think. Language is the main problem. If you aren't fluent in the new country's language, you can have problems with government bureaucracy, school/work, socialising, children's lives, doctors etc. If you speak English these are much reduced in countries with high English proficiency (IS/NO/SE/FI/DK/NL/LU/CY, obviously IE/MT). Or, if you are moving where there's already a significant community of people speaking your language.
lumb63 3y ago
I grew up in an American suburb and now live in Boston. I like that the city is more walkable, but still not very walkable. Transport is a hassle. The city streets are also often unclean, and there are some folk on the streets who most people would rather not associate with, e.g., homeless, vulgar, etc. What is it about cities outside of America that make them better? Do you any any examples? Do you have any suggestions what we could do in America to emulate that?
cafard 3y ago
Any American city of sufficient size has many parts, some better than others. Much of Baltimore is unpleasant or dangerous, but the Mount Washington area looks suburban and is pleasant. There are dangerous and unpleasant parts of Washington, DC, and there are parts that are fine. There are some troubled places in suburbs, as well.

ptero 3y ago

> Cities outside of US are just fine for raising children. Idk, there are many cities outside the US where I wouldn't want to stay more than absolutely necessary, let alone raise children.

mcv 3y ago
There's a lot of dangerous cities in the world. Lots of countries have weak governments unable to keep the peace, with social life disrupted by crime, strife, unrest, distrust. But there are also lots of countries that are much, much safer than the US.
- ptero 3y ago
  US certainly has its share of horrible cities. That said, US is a collection of regions with very different social setups and it is easy to move between them. It is common, as preferences change, for youngsters to live for a few years in one state, settle to raise children in another, then move as empty-nesters to third. If safety is what one is after, one can find a place that is super safe, comparable on safety to anywhere in the world. Someone else would aim for nightlife instead. This flexibility is what makes US very livable for me. Just my 2c.
  - MavisBacon 3y ago
    Definitely this. I grew up outside Baltimore and went on to live in Boulder CO, Orange County CA, moved back home and then to LA on a whim. Finished school in Nashville, TN and my wife and I are about to get out and move to Maine. Zero red tape whatsoever- the flexibility and ease of traversing and moving around the USA is definitely awesome and rarely discussed in terms of the benefits of living here. There’s something for pretty much everyone and the culture varies greatly from region to region, city to city.
    - mcv 3y ago
      With freedom of movement, it's just as easy to move around the EU now. But I don't have to make a trade-off between safety and nightlife. But I've got to admit that Maine looks pretty safe according to https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/charts-and-maps https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/charts-and-maps
      - ptero 3y ago
        First of all, I am not bashing EU or Europe -- great countries, great history, etc. But I would pretty strongly disagree on "just as easy to move around the EU" part. From what I understand it is super smooth for vacations, but not nearly as frictionless to move around semi-permanently. For example, someone graduating in Norway, moving to Spain for 3 years, then on to Germany would see friction in renting a flat, sending children to school or buying a house. If this is not the case, I would love to be corrected. Also, it sounds strange to me to look at guns as an inverse proxy for safety. I would, especially with kids, first look at drug prevalence and second at accidents on the roads (both cars and bikes). Which reinforces what I started with: the ability to select the place I want to live in based on my own preferences. Given a wide variety of options, both politically and socially, one can usually find a place they are happy in. My 2c.
        Symbiote 3y ago
        For school you may have language barriers, depending what language(s) your children speak. They're entitled to a place at school though. The only barrier to buying a flat or house might be slightly reduced access to loans. I found in Denmark it is easier for a Dane to get a loan for 95% of the house value, but foreigners might only get 80%. EU citizens are somewhere in the middle, depending what the banks think. Language is the main problem. If you aren't fluent in the new country's language, you can have problems with government bureaucracy, school/work, socialising, children's lives, doctors etc. If you speak English these are much reduced in countries with high English proficiency (IS/NO/SE/FI/DK/NL/LU/CY, obviously IE/MT). Or, if you are moving where there's already a significant community of people speaking your language.

lumb63 3y ago

I grew up in an American suburb and now live in Boston. I like that the city is more walkable, but still not very walkable. Transport is a hassle. The city streets are also often unclean, and there are some folk on the streets who most people would rather not associate with, e.g., homeless, vulgar, etc. What is it about cities outside of America that make them better? Do you any any examples? Do you have any suggestions what we could do in America to emulate that?

cafard 3y ago

Any American city of sufficient size has many parts, some better than others. Much of Baltimore is unpleasant or dangerous, but the Mount Washington area looks suburban and is pleasant. There are dangerous and unpleasant parts of Washington, DC, and there are parts that are fine. There are some troubled places in suburbs, as well.