6 ms·

The problem is not with progress. The problem is with denial of a dilema. Human baseline nature is unable to handle much more progress. Meaning, we are already

The problem is not with progress. The problem is with denial of a dilema. Human baseline nature is unable to handle much more progress. Meaning, we are already very close to the killer drone dilema, and as even small crisis like the Covid virus have shown, once we come under pressure we fall apart. We can pretend all we want in good times, that we are strong and cohesive and we have good captains steering the ship. But in the bad times, its revealed these are just play actors, standing with unconnected steering wheels in light opera uniforms on deck of breaking vessels. To think that handing more dangerous technology to such a unpatched humanity solves problems instead of just upping the stakes in a dangerous game, instead of patching the holes in our heads first, is contraproductive. We need to tame ourselves, before we are able to advance. Thus we need a realistic assesement of all our behaviour, a solid patching holding up to crisis and a almost stoic with apps as result, before progress can continue. Our hands are to flimsy for the tools we can make. PS: " Automnomous suicide drones in city XXXXXX due to progress" should be the real title.

mandmandam 3y ago
I agree that the problem isn't progress, and that there are problems being denied. I don't think the root of the problem is most people's human nature though. Culture has been cynically and scientifically hacked by megamedia conglomerates, blasting brains with full volume fear porn 24h a day for decades over every outlet. This is great for media, great for politicians, great for advertisers like insurance companies to tell us how kind they are, and for energy companies to explain why they're great for the environment. It's phenomenally bad for us, as a species and as a biosphere. Don't confuse natural human reactions to relentless state-of-the-art propaganda with actual baseline human nature. Energy companies, politicians, and the media didn't just lie to us about the reality of climate change - they actively made things worse, sowing doubt just like the tobacco companies did. It's not that our nature needs a patch! We need to stop letting greedy and self interested psychopaths use media, education, politics, regulation, finance, etc. to get around our very natural human reactions to these issues.
- n4ture 3y ago
  Both of you basically said the same thing to me, our seeking of unbriddled progress is like a moth to a flame, we think it's our guide but it'll just burn us if we don't think properly/rationally about it. Our single most important skill as humans is our ability to adapt, hence the plasticity in our mindstate, culture, introspection etc... The Elites understand that very well and uses that to fulfill whatever sick fantasies they harbor. qikInNdOutReply said we need a patch, you appeal to common sense, I like to speak about some kind of "transcendence". In the end, we all speak about the same thing: With this much progress, technical prowess, power etc.. comes a great deal of problem and responsibility we are unable to handle, we need to balance this with a "progress" in our mindset and culture to get some sort of control over our tools, society, destiny or whatever we deem important to continue living decently.
- mtsr 3y ago
  This sounds like a compelling argument to me. So what could actually be done about the fear porn? To what extent are people aware of the effects of fear-mongering / click-bait media able to make other choices if offered alternatives? Because surely people will actually feel better if they do. Would neutral-to-hopeful media stories be able to reach enough people? If we let go of the goal of maximizing profits, would it be possible to make such an effort self-sustaining? Would it perhaps require volunteers who want to make a positive impact? Finally, what is needed to start doing this and reaching people with it, right now?
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    That's a lot of questions, haha. I'll try: > what could actually be done about the fear porn? The short answer is, I don't know what can be done. The people doing it are doing it because it's very profitable for them, and not just because fear grabs attention. Their corporate sponsors love having control of the narrative. I don't think I could pull even one person out of their fear bubble, either the CNN flavour or the Fox flavour. All you can do is try to help them feel safe, and loved. But it's like having a drug addict in the family; it's a lot of work and very often there isn't much you can do. You need to go after the drug pusher, and the manufacturer, and take away their control of the fear supply and distribution. That's a "radical" and monumental task, which can only be begun when enough people recognize the disease that's attacking them. Very smart and effective people have tried to do this for decades, and been smeared for their efforts. Witness Assange, Chomsky, Klein, etc. > To what extent are people aware of the effects of fear-mongering / click-bait media able to make other choices if offered alternatives? Again, I feel that the correct analogy here is that of a drug addict. Fear-porn corporate news is heroin - bad for you, but highly addictive. What you're talking about here is like going up to a junkie and offering them an organic apple, or a tasty hummus sandwich. Sure, they'd feel better if they swapped needles for nutrition, but bruh - not gonna happen. > Would neutral-to-hopeful media stories be able to reach enough people? They're out there. They often do grab attention, and a lot of people really love stories like that. But they don't trigger that drug-reflex like the shock-terror-drivel that corporate news gushes every minute of the day. Gather all the volunteers you like - you're still offering apples to heroin addicts. > what is needed to start doing this and reaching people with it, right now? Treat fear-porn like heroin, and use similar interventions. Take control of the fear-porn, make it safe, and offer it in small doses in safe environments to addicts. Make society so safe and good that people aren't interested in heroin/fear-porn. Now, can you do this without the fear-drug gangs doing anything and everything to stop you from accomplishing this? In America? “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” - Karl Rove.
lnsru 3y ago
I would say, our modern controlled democracy can’t solve any problem. Why “controlled”? Because only professional conmen backed by some shady organizations can enter the voting list with real election change. I know tons really smart and good hearted people. I can guarantee, their work would be very beneficial for whole society. And yet no one of them gets elected somewhere. Democracy being complete scam is also being promoted as a single true government form. It’s actually worse than communism. There is same ruling class, same corruption and also nobody is responsive for anything. Best case something is being planned until next election and NO big project is being touched. That’s how one ends building 40 years 6 mile long train track. Democracy must be replaced with something working. Maybe with real direct democracy where everybody could vote using some app.
- emptyfile 3y ago
  [dead]
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  Democracy being complete scam is also being promoted as a single true government form. It’s actually worse than communism. I’m actually seeing this a lot lately. Maybe a bit of American self-doubt starting to show ? I’ve really noticed the last few weeks especially a bit of a “Maybe China has it right” attitude. My theory is maybe it’s the fear of job losses making people think twice about the free market capitalist society actually being a wise thing to be part of once you’re no longer as required as in the past ? Just general disillusionment ? I actually agree with you btw , what we have does not work anymore, it’s not solving the problems of today.

mandmandam 3y ago

I agree that the problem isn't progress, and that there are problems being denied. I don't think the root of the problem is most people's human nature though. Culture has been cynically and scientifically hacked by megamedia conglomerates, blasting brains with full volume fear porn 24h a day for decades over every outlet. This is great for media, great for politicians, great for advertisers like insurance companies to tell us how kind they are, and for energy companies to explain why they're great for the environment. It's phenomenally bad for us, as a species and as a biosphere. Don't confuse natural human reactions to relentless state-of-the-art propaganda with actual baseline human nature. Energy companies, politicians, and the media didn't just lie to us about the reality of climate change - they actively made things worse, sowing doubt just like the tobacco companies did. It's not that our nature needs a patch! We need to stop letting greedy and self interested psychopaths use media, education, politics, regulation, finance, etc. to get around our very natural human reactions to these issues.

n4ture 3y ago
Both of you basically said the same thing to me, our seeking of unbriddled progress is like a moth to a flame, we think it's our guide but it'll just burn us if we don't think properly/rationally about it. Our single most important skill as humans is our ability to adapt, hence the plasticity in our mindstate, culture, introspection etc... The Elites understand that very well and uses that to fulfill whatever sick fantasies they harbor. qikInNdOutReply said we need a patch, you appeal to common sense, I like to speak about some kind of "transcendence". In the end, we all speak about the same thing: With this much progress, technical prowess, power etc.. comes a great deal of problem and responsibility we are unable to handle, we need to balance this with a "progress" in our mindset and culture to get some sort of control over our tools, society, destiny or whatever we deem important to continue living decently.
mtsr 3y ago
This sounds like a compelling argument to me. So what could actually be done about the fear porn? To what extent are people aware of the effects of fear-mongering / click-bait media able to make other choices if offered alternatives? Because surely people will actually feel better if they do. Would neutral-to-hopeful media stories be able to reach enough people? If we let go of the goal of maximizing profits, would it be possible to make such an effort self-sustaining? Would it perhaps require volunteers who want to make a positive impact? Finally, what is needed to start doing this and reaching people with it, right now?
- mandmandam 3y ago
  That's a lot of questions, haha. I'll try: > what could actually be done about the fear porn? The short answer is, I don't know what can be done. The people doing it are doing it because it's very profitable for them, and not just because fear grabs attention. Their corporate sponsors love having control of the narrative. I don't think I could pull even one person out of their fear bubble, either the CNN flavour or the Fox flavour. All you can do is try to help them feel safe, and loved. But it's like having a drug addict in the family; it's a lot of work and very often there isn't much you can do. You need to go after the drug pusher, and the manufacturer, and take away their control of the fear supply and distribution. That's a "radical" and monumental task, which can only be begun when enough people recognize the disease that's attacking them. Very smart and effective people have tried to do this for decades, and been smeared for their efforts. Witness Assange, Chomsky, Klein, etc. > To what extent are people aware of the effects of fear-mongering / click-bait media able to make other choices if offered alternatives? Again, I feel that the correct analogy here is that of a drug addict. Fear-porn corporate news is heroin - bad for you, but highly addictive. What you're talking about here is like going up to a junkie and offering them an organic apple, or a tasty hummus sandwich. Sure, they'd feel better if they swapped needles for nutrition, but bruh - not gonna happen. > Would neutral-to-hopeful media stories be able to reach enough people? They're out there. They often do grab attention, and a lot of people really love stories like that. But they don't trigger that drug-reflex like the shock-terror-drivel that corporate news gushes every minute of the day. Gather all the volunteers you like - you're still offering apples to heroin addicts. > what is needed to start doing this and reaching people with it, right now? Treat fear-porn like heroin, and use similar interventions. Take control of the fear-porn, make it safe, and offer it in small doses in safe environments to addicts. Make society so safe and good that people aren't interested in heroin/fear-porn. Now, can you do this without the fear-drug gangs doing anything and everything to stop you from accomplishing this? In America? “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” - Karl Rove.

lnsru 3y ago

I would say, our modern controlled democracy can’t solve any problem. Why “controlled”? Because only professional conmen backed by some shady organizations can enter the voting list with real election change. I know tons really smart and good hearted people. I can guarantee, their work would be very beneficial for whole society. And yet no one of them gets elected somewhere. Democracy being complete scam is also being promoted as a single true government form. It’s actually worse than communism. There is same ruling class, same corruption and also nobody is responsive for anything. Best case something is being planned until next election and NO big project is being touched. That’s how one ends building 40 years 6 mile long train track. Democracy must be replaced with something working. Maybe with real direct democracy where everybody could vote using some app.

emptyfile 3y ago
[dead]
ChatGTP 3y ago
Democracy being complete scam is also being promoted as a single true government form. It’s actually worse than communism. I’m actually seeing this a lot lately. Maybe a bit of American self-doubt starting to show ? I’ve really noticed the last few weeks especially a bit of a “Maybe China has it right” attitude. My theory is maybe it’s the fear of job losses making people think twice about the free market capitalist society actually being a wise thing to be part of once you’re no longer as required as in the past ? Just general disillusionment ? I actually agree with you btw , what we have does not work anymore, it’s not solving the problems of today.