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Corporations can be regarded as AI agents with misaligned goals. In a bit over a century this has resulted in damage to the climate and Earth's ecosystem that i

by rollo 3y ago

Corporations can be regarded as AI agents with misaligned goals. In a bit over a century this has resulted in damage to the climate and Earth's ecosystem that is threatening the survival of our civilization. And that's just slow, badly optimized paperclippers so far.

chrisco255 3y ago
It's really not though is it, that's just your programming thinking for you. Human deaths from weather and climate related events are near all time lows, while overall population is indeed at all time highs. We have better crop yields (3) and productivity thanks to both technology and indeed, CO2 fertilization of the atmosphere (4), which is driven by photosynthesis, a process which is optimized at thousands of ppm for the vast majority of plant species, many multiples from where we now stand. Of course, the most abundant periods for life on earth have been periods of abundant carbon, such as the Carboniferous era, and the Cambrian era (5). Clearly the ecosystem is far from collapse as a result of mild warming and improved plant productivity. In many regards, it's thriving, and certainly more so than 100-120 years ago, which predated any pretense of conservation at all. And we know that it's indeed glaciation (global cooling) that so often leads to catastrophe in ecosystems (1)(2). But that we can program human beings with subtle prods of horrific and exaggerated headlines, along with cult-like expectations of consensus, into believing the opposite to be true from reality, is certainly an indication of paperclip optimization gone awry. (1) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259495017_Ecological_ranking_of_Phanerozoic_biodiversity_crises_The_Serpukhovianend-Ordovician_early_Carboniferous_crisis_had_a_greater_ecological_impact_than_the_end-Ordovician https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259495017_Ecologica... (2) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360894775_Global_cooling_initiated_the_Middle-Late_Mississippian_biodiversity_crisis https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360894775_Global_co... (3) https://www.agriculture.com/news/crops/usda-raises-the-us-corn-soybean-yield-expectations https://www.agriculture.com/news/crops/usda-raises-the-us-co... (4) https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fer... (5) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5942912/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5942912/
- rollo 3y ago
  Clearly the ecosystem is far from collapse while we're in the middle of a rapid human-caused mass-extinction. What kind of propaganda are you smoking, bro.
  - chrisco255 3y ago
    Sorry, but according to NASA satellite data, you are sorely mistaken: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fer...
    - ajuc 3y ago
      Diversity vs biomass. If AI prefers biomass over diversity we're pretty much fucked ;) If it prefers diversity - at least some of us will remain in ZOOs ;)
      - chrisco255 3y ago
        The conditions necessary for biomass expansion are also conducive to biodiversity. Indeed, the vast majority of biological diversity is in the tropical region of earth. Species of life seem to have a very hard time in the arctic regions. As for AIs, I see no reason why they should prefer any characteristic of ecology at all, if all of their needs can be met from silicon and electricity. (1) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259552528_Why_are_there_so_many_species_in_the_tropics https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259552528_Why_are_t...
        ajuc 3y ago
        > The conditions necessary for biomass expansion are also conducive to biodiversity. It might be the case in general, but currently we're experiencing biodiversity loss on the global scale. [1] [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiversity_loss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiversity_loss [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
AbrahamParangi 3y ago
The whole “world is ending thing” is a bit hysterical in my opinion. Discussion on it is so stifled because people don’t want to sound like they’re anti-environment so they don’t check the least reality based voices.

by rollo 3y ago

chrisco255 3y ago

It's really not though is it, that's just your programming thinking for you. Human deaths from weather and climate related events are near all time lows, while overall population is indeed at all time highs. We have better crop yields (3) and productivity thanks to both technology and indeed, CO2 fertilization of the atmosphere (4), which is driven by photosynthesis, a process which is optimized at thousands of ppm for the vast majority of plant species, many multiples from where we now stand. Of course, the most abundant periods for life on earth have been periods of abundant carbon, such as the Carboniferous era, and the Cambrian era (5). Clearly the ecosystem is far from collapse as a result of mild warming and improved plant productivity. In many regards, it's thriving, and certainly more so than 100-120 years ago, which predated any pretense of conservation at all. And we know that it's indeed glaciation (global cooling) that so often leads to catastrophe in ecosystems (1)(2). But that we can program human beings with subtle prods of horrific and exaggerated headlines, along with cult-like expectations of consensus, into believing the opposite to be true from reality, is certainly an indication of paperclip optimization gone awry. (1) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259495017_Ecological_ranking_of_Phanerozoic_biodiversity_crises_The_Serpukhovianend-Ordovician_early_Carboniferous_crisis_had_a_greater_ecological_impact_than_the_end-Ordovician https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259495017_Ecologica... (2) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360894775_Global_cooling_initiated_the_Middle-Late_Mississippian_biodiversity_crisis https://www.researchgate.net/publication/360894775_Global_co... (3) https://www.agriculture.com/news/crops/usda-raises-the-us-corn-soybean-yield-expectations https://www.agriculture.com/news/crops/usda-raises-the-us-co... (4) https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fer... (5) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5942912/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5942912/

rollo 3y ago
Clearly the ecosystem is far from collapse while we're in the middle of a rapid human-caused mass-extinction. What kind of propaganda are you smoking, bro.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  Sorry, but according to NASA satellite data, you are sorely mistaken: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth/ https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fer...
  - ajuc 3y ago
    Diversity vs biomass. If AI prefers biomass over diversity we're pretty much fucked ;) If it prefers diversity - at least some of us will remain in ZOOs ;)
    - chrisco255 3y ago
      The conditions necessary for biomass expansion are also conducive to biodiversity. Indeed, the vast majority of biological diversity is in the tropical region of earth. Species of life seem to have a very hard time in the arctic regions. As for AIs, I see no reason why they should prefer any characteristic of ecology at all, if all of their needs can be met from silicon and electricity. (1) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259552528_Why_are_there_so_many_species_in_the_tropics https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259552528_Why_are_t...
      - ajuc 3y ago
        > The conditions necessary for biomass expansion are also conducive to biodiversity. It might be the case in general, but currently we're experiencing biodiversity loss on the global scale. [1] [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiversity_loss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiversity_loss [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

AbrahamParangi 3y ago

The whole “world is ending thing” is a bit hysterical in my opinion. Discussion on it is so stifled because people don’t want to sound like they’re anti-environment so they don’t check the least reality based voices.