6 ms·

In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme, DRM. There were complaints, but users took it

In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme, DRM. There were complaints, but users took it because where else to go? And to be honest, XP was still an upgrade coming from 98 and 2000 was not available for end users. Vista was an universally loathed disaster, but users took it because where else to go? Windows 7 was better, but still an UI downgrade. Users took it because where else to go? Windows 8, the your-computer-is-now-a-tablet edition. Users took it, where else to go? Windows 10, forced on user PCs, universally loathed. Still an user experience downgrade, but users took it because where else to go? And after a few years, memory of old versions faded enough that some people actually believed win10 was any good. Windows 11, ad ridden malware by any definition from 10 years ago. Users will take it, because where else to go. Microsoft leadership is not utterly stupid. They know users will take the next windows, whatever it does. Notice how every version gets more bold in the abuse. They expect your complaints. They are even polite enough not to laugh at the whole thing until they are in their own ingroup. I am speaking user experience here, there was some windows tech advancement in the last 20 years. And I know how availability of OS, software and drivers means tou have to upgrade if you want to stay with Windows. Even so, I never thought the whole world would go from a mostly competitive software ecosystem to stockholm syndrome from 1 abusive software vendor, but here we are. The sheer power of avoiding some short term pain no matter the long term cost is unbelievable.

DrBazza 4y ago
> Windows 11, ad ridden malware by any definition from 10 years ago. Users will take it, because where else to go. 2 of my last 3 jobs have offered MacBooks, something unthinkable even 10 years ago. The majority of my friends kids (70-80%) have Apple devices (phones and laptops). A couple of them, surprisingly to me, even have linux and Chromebook laptops.
- lkramer 4y ago
  At my job you need a special dispensation if you want a Windows machine (normally available options are Linux or Mac). That would certainly have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
  - DrBazza 4y ago
    I'm currently trying to persuade my current employer for a linux desktop. Developers at my company have zero reasons to use Windows, and yet we're using it 'for reasons'.
- rmsaksida 4y ago
  Apple products (Macbooks especially) are prohibitively expensive in most of the world. The US market is very important, of course, but Microsoft has very little competition elsewhere.
hardware2win 4y ago
>Vista was an universally loathed disaster, but users took it because where else to go? Who? "Nobody" used Vista except eg schools. Same with 8 Maybe for me it feels diffetent maybe thats country difference, but the windows migration felt like: xp 7 10 ... 12? People were using xp and 7 as long as they could >In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme No idea what you are talking about, what do you mean?
- soco 4y ago
  Let's give also credit to 8.1 - it was quite usable.
  - miffy900 4y ago
    Yes it was better than 8.0, but 8.x definitely did not sell as well as Windows 7. Windows 7 got 3 years of ESU (extended security updates), which MS did not bother with Winodws 8 because there wasn't the install base worth the effort (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-8-1-support-ended-on-january-10-2023-3cfd4cde-f611-496a-8057-923fba401e93 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-8-1-supp...). It was the same with Vista - it's predecessor, Windows XP, was supported until 2014, which was 2 years more than Vista got
- hyperman1 4y ago
  >>In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme >No idea what you are talking about, what do you mean? It turns out to be quite hard to find links about this bygone era, even if everyone screamed bloody murder at the time. I found these: Third party themes, a feature loved by win98 users, are forbidden by microsoft in XP. https://www.theregister.com/2001/02/16/compatibility_woes_derail_windows_xp/ https://www.theregister.com/2001/02/16/compatibility_woes_de... The Luna theme was called fisher price, not plastic, in the complaints - Got confused by KDE I guess. I presume it tried to make computers more playfull and less work. But people felt like Microsoft treated them like toddlers. Not everybody realized it could be disabled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_visual_styles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_visual_styles DRM. Can't even find anything relevant anymore. XP was the first MS consumer OS to implement and require it. There was also the required activation, and the digital signing of system components. All of these represent a deep change of how Microsoft viewed their customers. Before, the user was allowed to do with his computer what he or she wanted, even if the machine got wrecked in the process. Users were assumed to be responsible agents, and protection against malware or legal usage was their responsibilty. Starting with XP, Microsoft decided it knew better than the user, and needed to limit user activities with cryptographic measures. The PC should protect microsoft, content owners and end users against the incompetency or malice of the owner, even against their wishes. There were sometimes good reasons, e.g. theming allowed injection of malware into anything. But the final decision of what was allowed or not was from now on made by microsoft, not the owner.
tonyedgecombe 4y ago
>Users will take it, because where else to go. Until they don't, then there will be nowhere for MS to go.
Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
> Windows 7 was better, but still an UI downgrade. I thought Win7 with the Classic theme was the best Windows UI. Side note: maybe it's a typo, but why would you use "an UI" instead of "a UI". Whether you pronounce the letters or say "User Interface", it's still going to be "a", unless you pronounce "UI" as "ooey".
- hyperman1 3y ago
  I just see your side note now, and this non-English speaker is curious: I thought this was correct. You start with 'a downgrade of the UI'. Then you shorten to 'a UI downgrade'. Now you you have 2 vowels 'a' and 'U' next to each other, so you must drop an 'n' in between to ease pronouncing it..
  - Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
    Whether it's "a" or "an" is not about the letters, it's about the sound. When saying letters, in English, "U" is pronounced "yoo". The Y sound, being a consonant, will mean the correct indefinite article is "a". Contrasted with German, I know they just pronounce it like "oo" with no y-sound preceding it. If you pronounce the letter "U" like that, then using "an" would be correct. a/an being about the sound and not the letter is also why "an hour" is correct, despite H being a consonant, because the H is silent. That all being said, you'll find people argue over whether "an historical event" or "a historical event" is correct.

DrBazza 4y ago

> Windows 11, ad ridden malware by any definition from 10 years ago. Users will take it, because where else to go. 2 of my last 3 jobs have offered MacBooks, something unthinkable even 10 years ago. The majority of my friends kids (70-80%) have Apple devices (phones and laptops). A couple of them, surprisingly to me, even have linux and Chromebook laptops.

lkramer 4y ago
At my job you need a special dispensation if you want a Windows machine (normally available options are Linux or Mac). That would certainly have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
- DrBazza 4y ago
  I'm currently trying to persuade my current employer for a linux desktop. Developers at my company have zero reasons to use Windows, and yet we're using it 'for reasons'.
rmsaksida 4y ago
Apple products (Macbooks especially) are prohibitively expensive in most of the world. The US market is very important, of course, but Microsoft has very little competition elsewhere.

hardware2win 4y ago

>Vista was an universally loathed disaster, but users took it because where else to go? Who? "Nobody" used Vista except eg schools. Same with 8 Maybe for me it feels diffetent maybe thats country difference, but the windows migration felt like: xp 7 10 ... 12? People were using xp and 7 as long as they could >In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme No idea what you are talking about, what do you mean?

soco 4y ago
Let's give also credit to 8.1 - it was quite usable.
- miffy900 4y ago
  Yes it was better than 8.0, but 8.x definitely did not sell as well as Windows 7. Windows 7 got 3 years of ESU (extended security updates), which MS did not bother with Winodws 8 because there wasn't the install base worth the effort (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-8-1-support-ended-on-january-10-2023-3cfd4cde-f611-496a-8057-923fba401e93 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-8-1-supp...). It was the same with Vista - it's predecessor, Windows XP, was supported until 2014, which was 2 years more than Vista got
hyperman1 4y ago
>>In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme >No idea what you are talking about, what do you mean? It turns out to be quite hard to find links about this bygone era, even if everyone screamed bloody murder at the time. I found these: Third party themes, a feature loved by win98 users, are forbidden by microsoft in XP. https://www.theregister.com/2001/02/16/compatibility_woes_derail_windows_xp/ https://www.theregister.com/2001/02/16/compatibility_woes_de... The Luna theme was called fisher price, not plastic, in the complaints - Got confused by KDE I guess. I presume it tried to make computers more playfull and less work. But people felt like Microsoft treated them like toddlers. Not everybody realized it could be disabled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_visual_styles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP_visual_styles DRM. Can't even find anything relevant anymore. XP was the first MS consumer OS to implement and require it. There was also the required activation, and the digital signing of system components. All of these represent a deep change of how Microsoft viewed their customers. Before, the user was allowed to do with his computer what he or she wanted, even if the machine got wrecked in the process. Users were assumed to be responsible agents, and protection against malware or legal usage was their responsibilty. Starting with XP, Microsoft decided it knew better than the user, and needed to limit user activities with cryptographic measures. The PC should protect microsoft, content owners and end users against the incompetency or malice of the owner, even against their wishes. There were sometimes good reasons, e.g. theming allowed injection of malware into anything. But the final decision of what was allowed or not was from now on made by microsoft, not the owner.

tonyedgecombe 4y ago

>Users will take it, because where else to go. Until they don't, then there will be nowhere for MS to go.

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago

> Windows 7 was better, but still an UI downgrade. I thought Win7 with the Classic theme was the best Windows UI. Side note: maybe it's a typo, but why would you use "an UI" instead of "a UI". Whether you pronounce the letters or say "User Interface", it's still going to be "a", unless you pronounce "UI" as "ooey".

hyperman1 3y ago
I just see your side note now, and this non-English speaker is curious: I thought this was correct. You start with 'a downgrade of the UI'. Then you shorten to 'a UI downgrade'. Now you you have 2 vowels 'a' and 'U' next to each other, so you must drop an 'n' in between to ease pronouncing it..
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  Whether it's "a" or "an" is not about the letters, it's about the sound. When saying letters, in English, "U" is pronounced "yoo". The Y sound, being a consonant, will mean the correct indefinite article is "a". Contrasted with German, I know they just pronounce it like "oo" with no y-sound preceding it. If you pronounce the letter "U" like that, then using "an" would be correct. a/an being about the sound and not the letter is also why "an hour" is correct, despite H being a consonant, because the H is silent. That all being said, you'll find people argue over whether "an historical event" or "a historical event" is correct.