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> isn't a reliable friend or ally France knows the US isn't a reliable ally since the Suez crisis. Look at what happened to the US allies in Afghanistan or to

> isn't a reliable friend or ally France knows the US isn't a reliable ally since the Suez crisis. Look at what happened to the US allies in Afghanistan or to the Kurdish fighters in Syria for a more recent exemple. The issue is that it's a useful one.

boffinAudio 4y ago
Its more a factor of not wanting to participate in the hypocrisy that is required to continue to allow American's to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity under the guise of 'protecting democracy'. Nobody outside the American agitprop bubble believes that is really the purpose of the USA's demands, any more. Even if the American people are afraid of it, the rest of the world is quite capable of viewing the evidence of American war crimes and crimes against humanity. Especially the French, who consider this a vital issue, given the extent of their borders invalidation by refugees from America's wars ...
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  > Its more a factor of not wanting to participate in the hypocrisy Yeah, no, it absolutely is not that. France is all too happy to sell war equipments to countries guilty of crimes against humanity when it’s in its own interest (who said Saudi Arabia?). I applaud any actions in favour of more autonomy within or especially without the EU - an alliance which stopped making sense for France after the 2004 enlargement and was already dubious after 1995 - but let’s not pretend it’s done out of any kind of virtue.
- elefanten 4y ago
  If ethics are the driver, how does France feel about China’s neocolonial expansionism, its geo-ethnic concentration camps and its insistence on terminally annexing a peaceful independent democracy off its shores? And if we’re talking about hypocrisy and reliability, what about China’s hypocrisy and naked lies in diplomacy (decades of promises to reform with zero intent to follow through) and its opportunistic all-spectrum IP theft-by-coercion? How does France feel empowering and collaborating with a functionally-totalitarian centralized government operating on Han ethnonationalism which sees the existence of large democracies as a threat to its internal affairs (all Xi Jinping Socialist Thought For International Relations global PR campaigns notwithstanding)? I’d think that even if commitment to those principles turn out to be French agitprop, at least France remembers how it goes to let that kind of governance complex rise to (near-)hegemonic power.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    How do you feel about living in a country torturring kidnapped people without ever bringing them in front of the justice system, sponsoring mass violence in South America through its drug policies and weapon industry, which provably sponsored the Indonesian genocide in 1965, paid for the coup which put a totalitarian military dictatorship in place in Chile instead of the democraticly elected government of Allende? The USA has no lessons to give to anyone regarding foreign diplomacy. There is no truth behind the idea that China is bad and the USA is the force for good. Both countries want to export their own model of exploitation. Both countries are trying to make the rest of world subservient. Both care about their own interest first and foremost. Both are pretty aweful in their own way. I wish we didn't have to deal with either. Sadly the world is what it is. Non alignment seems wise.
    - boffinAudio 4y ago
      >The USA has no lessons to give to anyone regarding foreign diplomacy. The USA has no diplomacy.

boffinAudio 4y ago

Its more a factor of not wanting to participate in the hypocrisy that is required to continue to allow American's to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity under the guise of 'protecting democracy'. Nobody outside the American agitprop bubble believes that is really the purpose of the USA's demands, any more. Even if the American people are afraid of it, the rest of the world is quite capable of viewing the evidence of American war crimes and crimes against humanity. Especially the French, who consider this a vital issue, given the extent of their borders invalidation by refugees from America's wars ...

WastingMyTime89 4y ago
> Its more a factor of not wanting to participate in the hypocrisy Yeah, no, it absolutely is not that. France is all too happy to sell war equipments to countries guilty of crimes against humanity when it’s in its own interest (who said Saudi Arabia?). I applaud any actions in favour of more autonomy within or especially without the EU - an alliance which stopped making sense for France after the 2004 enlargement and was already dubious after 1995 - but let’s not pretend it’s done out of any kind of virtue.
elefanten 4y ago
If ethics are the driver, how does France feel about China’s neocolonial expansionism, its geo-ethnic concentration camps and its insistence on terminally annexing a peaceful independent democracy off its shores? And if we’re talking about hypocrisy and reliability, what about China’s hypocrisy and naked lies in diplomacy (decades of promises to reform with zero intent to follow through) and its opportunistic all-spectrum IP theft-by-coercion? How does France feel empowering and collaborating with a functionally-totalitarian centralized government operating on Han ethnonationalism which sees the existence of large democracies as a threat to its internal affairs (all Xi Jinping Socialist Thought For International Relations global PR campaigns notwithstanding)? I’d think that even if commitment to those principles turn out to be French agitprop, at least France remembers how it goes to let that kind of governance complex rise to (near-)hegemonic power.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  How do you feel about living in a country torturring kidnapped people without ever bringing them in front of the justice system, sponsoring mass violence in South America through its drug policies and weapon industry, which provably sponsored the Indonesian genocide in 1965, paid for the coup which put a totalitarian military dictatorship in place in Chile instead of the democraticly elected government of Allende? The USA has no lessons to give to anyone regarding foreign diplomacy. There is no truth behind the idea that China is bad and the USA is the force for good. Both countries want to export their own model of exploitation. Both countries are trying to make the rest of world subservient. Both care about their own interest first and foremost. Both are pretty aweful in their own way. I wish we didn't have to deal with either. Sadly the world is what it is. Non alignment seems wise.
  - boffinAudio 4y ago
    >The USA has no lessons to give to anyone regarding foreign diplomacy. The USA has no diplomacy.