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I feel like it has more to do with having a surplus of time and resources. When you're in school, you have more time to hang out with people and every interacti

I feel like it has more to do with having a surplus of time and resources. When you're in school, you have more time to hang out with people and every interaction isn't tainted by the reality of having to compete over limited resources. As an adult, you are responsible for acquiring your own resources so every relationship is tainted by economic competition. I suspect that rich people have more friends for this reason; they have more surplus so they're not constantly (subconsciously) thinking about how to exact resources from everyone around them; it's probably also why rich people feel uncomfortable being friends with non-rich people. Nobody wants to be seen as a resource. Yet when you are truly deprived of resources, you can't help but see everything and everyone as a resource first and foremost. You need to have your basic needs met and your anxiety levels within tolerable range to see beyond that. The reality is that, during a bad famine, people will start subconsciously seeing their friends as a potential meal. It's not an ideal foundation for a friendship. In this case (for most of us), the problem is not famine, but there is a strong desire to escape the constant anxiety of having to work insanely hard just to make ends meet which has a similar effect on friendships. In communist countries, I suspect that regular people form strong friendships because there are no good mechanisms to extract resources from each other and they have their basic needs taken care of anyway (aside from the occasional famine). Citizens are treated like children. In North Korea, many adult women hold hands. That's unthinkable in a capitalist society. That level of friendship is simply unattainable to the kinds of resource-oriented people who tend to succeed at capitalism. But at least if you do have a lot of surplus resources, being resource-oriented isn't as much of a problem. It's hard to be both resource-oriented and poor, then you can't have any friends. Sadly, capitalism forces us to become resource-oriented, even if it is against our nature.

pbourke 4y ago
> I suspect that rich people have more friends for this reason; they have more surplus so they're not constantly (subconsciously) thinking about how to exact resources from everyone around them; Research points to the opposite conclusion: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1948550616641472 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/19485506166414... > Two studies using large, nationally representative samples of Americans (N = 118,026) and different measures of social contact showed that higher household income was associated with less time spent socializing with others (Studies 1 and 2) and more time spent alone (Study 2)
a4a4a4a4 4y ago
> aside from the occasional famine At least 50 million people have died due to famines in communist countries. Brushing that aside as "occasional" is intellectually dishonest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_... Same-sex hand-holding isn't possible in capitalist countries? South Korea has the same hand-holding culture: https://www.quora.com/Is-holding-hands-a-big-deal-in-Korea-if-you-re-not-a-couple https://www.quora.com/Is-holding-hands-a-big-deal-in-Korea-i...
- jongjong 4y ago
  If you want real intellectual honesty (and not just PR). How many millions have died due to famines caused by globalized capitalism? Just because they die in far-flung lands (e.g. Africa) and not on your doorstep doesn't make it better; it makes it worse IMO. Capitalism is really good at hiding its dirty deeds and covering them up with public relations (PR) narratives to divert attention (PR itself being a euphemism for propaganda), that's why I advocate for small-scale anarcho-capitalism as opposed to global-scale capitalism. The problem with global scale capitalism is that it hides its evils behind layers upon layers of complexity, misdirection and diffused harm; it starts wars to sell weapons, sets up debt traps when it's time to rebuild (enslaving populations of entire countries to servicing foreign debts), it erodes democracies, corrupts politicians, corrupts monetary systems, undermines social contracts, etc... Communism is not as bad as capitalists claim (relatively speaking). There are pros and cons. Though I think any social system implemented uniformly on a national or, worse, global scale is potentially very dangerous and harmful towards most of its participants. Adult same-sex hand-holding in capitalist countries generally does not happen outside of sexual relationships.
somethingreen 4y ago
> In communist countries, I suspect that regular people form strong friendships because there are no good mechanisms to extract resources from each other It is the opposite. If money doesn't buy you anything, it is knowing people that buys you everything. Look up the meaning of the word "блат".
ponow 4y ago
> capitalism forces us to become resource-oriented This doesn't ring true, if only for the simple reason that even sub-median wealth people are now much more materially wealthy than, say, a thousand years ago, even two hundred years ago or less. The need for two income is a huge time & energy drain for families, making it difficult to socialize. There was a post-WW2 sweet spot where you could live well on one income, and you didn't have to have many years of education. The US peace dividend was part of it, but I think that regulations that limit the housing supply and cause inflation are a major impetus for people working more to keep up their lifestyle.

pbourke 4y ago

> I suspect that rich people have more friends for this reason; they have more surplus so they're not constantly (subconsciously) thinking about how to exact resources from everyone around them; Research points to the opposite conclusion: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1948550616641472 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/19485506166414... > Two studies using large, nationally representative samples of Americans (N = 118,026) and different measures of social contact showed that higher household income was associated with less time spent socializing with others (Studies 1 and 2) and more time spent alone (Study 2)

a4a4a4a4 4y ago

> aside from the occasional famine At least 50 million people have died due to famines in communist countries. Brushing that aside as "occasional" is intellectually dishonest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_... Same-sex hand-holding isn't possible in capitalist countries? South Korea has the same hand-holding culture: https://www.quora.com/Is-holding-hands-a-big-deal-in-Korea-if-you-re-not-a-couple https://www.quora.com/Is-holding-hands-a-big-deal-in-Korea-i...

jongjong 4y ago
If you want real intellectual honesty (and not just PR). How many millions have died due to famines caused by globalized capitalism? Just because they die in far-flung lands (e.g. Africa) and not on your doorstep doesn't make it better; it makes it worse IMO. Capitalism is really good at hiding its dirty deeds and covering them up with public relations (PR) narratives to divert attention (PR itself being a euphemism for propaganda), that's why I advocate for small-scale anarcho-capitalism as opposed to global-scale capitalism. The problem with global scale capitalism is that it hides its evils behind layers upon layers of complexity, misdirection and diffused harm; it starts wars to sell weapons, sets up debt traps when it's time to rebuild (enslaving populations of entire countries to servicing foreign debts), it erodes democracies, corrupts politicians, corrupts monetary systems, undermines social contracts, etc... Communism is not as bad as capitalists claim (relatively speaking). There are pros and cons. Though I think any social system implemented uniformly on a national or, worse, global scale is potentially very dangerous and harmful towards most of its participants. Adult same-sex hand-holding in capitalist countries generally does not happen outside of sexual relationships.

somethingreen 4y ago

> In communist countries, I suspect that regular people form strong friendships because there are no good mechanisms to extract resources from each other It is the opposite. If money doesn't buy you anything, it is knowing people that buys you everything. Look up the meaning of the word "блат".

ponow 4y ago

> capitalism forces us to become resource-oriented This doesn't ring true, if only for the simple reason that even sub-median wealth people are now much more materially wealthy than, say, a thousand years ago, even two hundred years ago or less. The need for two income is a huge time & energy drain for families, making it difficult to socialize. There was a post-WW2 sweet spot where you could live well on one income, and you didn't have to have many years of education. The US peace dividend was part of it, but I think that regulations that limit the housing supply and cause inflation are a major impetus for people working more to keep up their lifestyle.