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Well of course the largest fossil fuel exporter on the planet is not going to tolerate some local community instituting a ban on fossil fuel use, why should any

Well of course the largest fossil fuel exporter on the planet is not going to tolerate some local community instituting a ban on fossil fuel use, why should anyone be surprised? The way things are shaping up, it's going to be the countries who have to import all their fossil fuels who will be the most interested in developing renewable energy as a replacement for fossil fuels. It's not exactly rocket science, is it?

bagacrap 4y ago
Even if big oil captured the judiciary, why would they care what Berkeley does when Europe generates more than enough demand for American natural gas exports?
- Kim_Bruning 4y ago
  That's very short term though. The reason for Europe's natural gas demand at the moment is because the EU has this minor dispute with that other large supplier of natural gas: Russia. Lesson learned: Don't depend on resources that can run out or be denied to you. Right now there are literally simply not enough craftsmen around able to rip out/replace/supplement (my corner of) Europe's natural gas heating systems fast enough. The waiting lists are insane. This means that the EU is stuck having to import natural gas as an interim emergency measure. But ask any county in northwest Europe and I bet they'd tell you that Berkeley is doing the sane thing here.
  - bagacrap 4y ago
    So Russian gas is going to start flowing again soon? I am not holding my breath on that one. In any case, the global harm that's come from building a multi-decade dependence on Russia for anything as crucial as oil and gas is far worse than the harm coming from some gas stoves, so European powers don't get to comment on sanity in this debate.
    - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
      > So Russian gas is going to start flowing again soon? No. I think you must have misread something. In my previous post, I am strongly implying that Russian gas is not going to start flowing again anytime soon, if ever. > In any case, the global harm that's come from building a multi-decade dependence on Russia for anything as crucial as oil and gas is far worse than the harm coming from some gas stoves The use of large numbers of gas stoves (and gas ovens, and gas central heating) is what leads to this kind of dependency in the first place. > European powers don't get to comment on sanity in this debate. I'm talking about all the counties (villages, towns, cities) large and small, who have been working hard to help their local home-owners and renters get through this winter and beyond.
caminante 4y ago
> Well of course the largest fossil fuel exporter on the planet is not going to tolerate... Kind of. It was the California Restaurant Association that brought the case.
- photochemsyn 4y ago
  Oh please, just look at Blackrock, Fidelity, State Street, Vanguard etc. investments in fossil fuels and fracked natural gas. I haven't looked lately, let's see who runs Chevron these days: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/cvx/holders?ltr=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/cvx/holders?ltr=1 Oh interesting, Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway is now Chevron's top holder. Who do you think appoints the judges? https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/03/13/Photos/ZH/MW-FH991_obama__20170313140041_ZH.jpg https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/03/13/Photos/ZH/M...
hnav 4y ago
They should have thrown some financial incentives to the developers instead of trying to institute a ban like crazy people who want to control others. A lot of bay area developers already don't want to deal with venting so you don't get a proper range vent and in unit dryers are often of the (more efficient) condensing variety, I could totally see developers foregoing gas hookups if the city threw them something to encourage heat pumps.
- toast0 4y ago
  > A lot of bay area developers already don't want to deal with venting so you don't get a proper range vent and in unit dryers are often of the (more efficient) condensing variety, I could totally see developers foregoing gas hookups if the city threw them something to encourage heat pumps. Sounds like they already have something to encourage heat pumps; you don't have to put in venting for heat pumps, and they don't want to deal with it. Problem solved. You should really have a proper range vent regardless of the heat source, but I guess that's not mandated, so there you go.
- sgc 4y ago
  They do both. There are tax incentives for developers, and plenty of rebate programs. See BayREN and the various programs they piggyback with.
  - specialist 4y ago
    Plus the federal incentives, eg Inflation Refuction Act.

bagacrap 4y ago

Even if big oil captured the judiciary, why would they care what Berkeley does when Europe generates more than enough demand for American natural gas exports?

Kim_Bruning 4y ago
That's very short term though. The reason for Europe's natural gas demand at the moment is because the EU has this minor dispute with that other large supplier of natural gas: Russia. Lesson learned: Don't depend on resources that can run out or be denied to you. Right now there are literally simply not enough craftsmen around able to rip out/replace/supplement (my corner of) Europe's natural gas heating systems fast enough. The waiting lists are insane. This means that the EU is stuck having to import natural gas as an interim emergency measure. But ask any county in northwest Europe and I bet they'd tell you that Berkeley is doing the sane thing here.
- bagacrap 4y ago
  So Russian gas is going to start flowing again soon? I am not holding my breath on that one. In any case, the global harm that's come from building a multi-decade dependence on Russia for anything as crucial as oil and gas is far worse than the harm coming from some gas stoves, so European powers don't get to comment on sanity in this debate.
  - Kim_Bruning 4y ago
    > So Russian gas is going to start flowing again soon? No. I think you must have misread something. In my previous post, I am strongly implying that Russian gas is not going to start flowing again anytime soon, if ever. > In any case, the global harm that's come from building a multi-decade dependence on Russia for anything as crucial as oil and gas is far worse than the harm coming from some gas stoves The use of large numbers of gas stoves (and gas ovens, and gas central heating) is what leads to this kind of dependency in the first place. > European powers don't get to comment on sanity in this debate. I'm talking about all the counties (villages, towns, cities) large and small, who have been working hard to help their local home-owners and renters get through this winter and beyond.

caminante 4y ago

> Well of course the largest fossil fuel exporter on the planet is not going to tolerate... Kind of. It was the California Restaurant Association that brought the case.

photochemsyn 4y ago
Oh please, just look at Blackrock, Fidelity, State Street, Vanguard etc. investments in fossil fuels and fracked natural gas. I haven't looked lately, let's see who runs Chevron these days: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/cvx/holders?ltr=1 https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/cvx/holders?ltr=1 Oh interesting, Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway is now Chevron's top holder. Who do you think appoints the judges? https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/03/13/Photos/ZH/MW-FH991_obama__20170313140041_ZH.jpg https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/03/13/Photos/ZH/M...

hnav 4y ago

They should have thrown some financial incentives to the developers instead of trying to institute a ban like crazy people who want to control others. A lot of bay area developers already don't want to deal with venting so you don't get a proper range vent and in unit dryers are often of the (more efficient) condensing variety, I could totally see developers foregoing gas hookups if the city threw them something to encourage heat pumps.

toast0 4y ago
> A lot of bay area developers already don't want to deal with venting so you don't get a proper range vent and in unit dryers are often of the (more efficient) condensing variety, I could totally see developers foregoing gas hookups if the city threw them something to encourage heat pumps. Sounds like they already have something to encourage heat pumps; you don't have to put in venting for heat pumps, and they don't want to deal with it. Problem solved. You should really have a proper range vent regardless of the heat source, but I guess that's not mandated, so there you go.
sgc 4y ago
They do both. There are tax incentives for developers, and plenty of rebate programs. See BayREN and the various programs they piggyback with.
- specialist 4y ago
  Plus the federal incentives, eg Inflation Refuction Act.