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The article does not mention how immigrants can make friends. Not all but most natives treat immigrants as outsiders. I get it that you are more likely to be fr

The article does not mention how immigrants can make friends. Not all but most natives treat immigrants as outsiders. I get it that you are more likely to be friends with someone who is similar to you. If it was difficult for a city girl to make friends with people who look like her but grew up in a different location, I can't even imagine how difficult it must be for immigrants who don't look the same, have a different accent and grew up in a different culture. People living in big cities like NY, San Francisco may have a few friends from a different country but that is not representative of the entire population of immigrants. Also, I like to think that the nature of friendships is entirely different depending on where you grew up. The North American definition of a friend is very different from an Indian definition of a friend. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's difficult enough to start over in a new country all by yourself and making friends is even more difficult than that.

creakingstairs 3y ago
I moved from Korea to NZ. And I’m recently trying out Japan. I think it can be _easier_ to make friends as an immigrant that looks different (as long as you can speak their language) as there will always be people who are interested in different cultures. Though I have found that it can be quite hard to become close friends but it’s definitely possible.
- stonekyx 3y ago
  Language is a major factor, yes. Another factor I think is whether you come from a “welcomed” country. Under the current chaotic world order, it’s not hard to come up with a few countries that are not welcomed almost anywhere (Disclaimer: I come from one of them). But still, start with some people that are close with you, either at work or in private, and try to expand that circle to larger / more diverse groups. The rule of making friends still apply for immigrants, it’s just a bit harder than natives.
  - creakingstairs 3y ago
    > Another factor I think is whether you come from a “welcomed” country. Definitely a factor. My wife is not Asian and she gets way more opportunities than me to make friends in Japan, though it is a double edged sword as being treated differently can get really annoying after a while.
    - lynx23 3y ago
      > as being treated differently can get really annoying after a while Yes, I can relate. I am blind, and 90% of all the interactions I have with strangers in public spaces are drenched in pity and patronisation. Being special sucks!
  - lynx23 3y ago
    I am honestly curious, what countries do you refer to when you say not-welcomed countries? The first thing that came to mind was Germany, but I am guessing you were not talking about that... Never forget that hostilities towards people from specific countries is a rather subjective phenomenon. What is religion to one person, is completely unacceptable to others.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      in china for example white people are very welcome, black people not so much. in europe white people can blend in, so even if they are not welcome they will not be rejected. but people that look different and have a different culture are looked upon suspiciously. not everyone is doing this of course, it's very subtle, and fortunately there are also open minded people
    - cableshaft 3y ago
      Here's a few possibilities: There's still a lot of hatred towards Middle Eastern people because 'they're all terrorists', although it seems to me that has died down a bit. From the posts of a local Arab woman I'm friends with on Facebook, it still seems pretty bad here, just not quite as blatant anymore. Chinese hate ramped up again since 2020, with all the talk about them being the enemy of the US on the right and many people blaming the country for Covid-19. And while I think most people try not to hold anything against the Russian people for the Russian invasion of Ukraine, (especially Russians that have left the country), there will quite a few that won't. I can imagine if you're Ukranian you probably will struggle to be friendly with any Russian right now, for example.
F-W-M 3y ago
I live in germany and work in an international company. I am the only german on my team. A lot of the younger colleagues blame their difficulties on making friends on german racism and stay in their expat circles, but the truth is: it's hard for everyone here.
- whstl 3y ago
  I'm an expat (immigrant?) in Germany. IME expat circles are a problem in itself. People who cling to them end up leaving much quicker than people who mingle with natives, or mingle with people from other nationalities. Not only you don't make long-term friends in those circles (because people are constantly leaving the country), but there's a lot of negativity and shit talking. You need to at least make an attempt to adapt, and those circles can be a replacement to that.
  - LeanderK 3y ago
    it mirrors a bit the experience I had in university with foreign students/phd students. Some immigrants are only friends with immigrants from the same country and it was surprising to hear that after spending years (sometimes BSc/Msc/Phd or Work) they are completely unable to say a single word in german, have no german friends etc. Usually very unapproachable und uncomfortable to talk to. Others with mixed groups of friends were way more approachable, I was surprised by some how well they are able to speak the language after just a few years.
  - CRConrad 3y ago
    > I'm an expat Mefh... > (immigrant?) Upvote.
- RamblingCTO 3y ago
  I live in a very international big German city, so we have plenty of expats. But what I notice is that they are generally shy to approach others, initiating contact or driving the conversation actively. They also tend to stick together in expat groups. So it's a turn off for me if I have to carry the conversation. It's easy to blame the people for shrugging off immigrants but I feel it's their duty to check the local concepts and expectations for communication and relationships. I also feel that this is generally only true for non-western immigrants. Never had any problems with aussies or americans. I also agree that making friends is very hard in Germany, but absolutely doable. My life hack: use "Neu in $city" facebook groups, go to boulder gyms and be open minded, smile and take initiative. Talk to people! And then build groups, as mentioned in the top comment (atm).
tenlp 3y ago
as I noticed,the people that from China are always tend to hang on with same culture and the same language,many of them,even have much more effect in social media, are still only in the mandarin speaker group
langsoul-com 3y ago
It's pretty universal for people to hang with groups that are similar to them. Expats hang with Expats, natives with natives etc etc. Tends to be easier
- em-bee 3y ago
  it's easier, but for me it defeats the purpose of visiting or living in a different country. so i prefer to stay away from expat groups. fortunately the local linux user groups or other tech groups in the places i have been to had more locals or a mix of locals and foreigners, and i was able to make a few very good local friends that way.
daniel_reetz 3y ago
I would be very interested in hearing/reading more about the Indian definition of a friend VS North American. I've seen what you describe, but for me, I personally relish the opportunity to be the person someone calls when they need help, and also to show someone what I enjoy about a city. I'm much less good at just hanging out or reaching out. For what it's worth, I lived for a while in Russia and friendship is different there, too.

creakingstairs 3y ago

I moved from Korea to NZ. And I’m recently trying out Japan. I think it can be _easier_ to make friends as an immigrant that looks different (as long as you can speak their language) as there will always be people who are interested in different cultures. Though I have found that it can be quite hard to become close friends but it’s definitely possible.

stonekyx 3y ago
Language is a major factor, yes. Another factor I think is whether you come from a “welcomed” country. Under the current chaotic world order, it’s not hard to come up with a few countries that are not welcomed almost anywhere (Disclaimer: I come from one of them). But still, start with some people that are close with you, either at work or in private, and try to expand that circle to larger / more diverse groups. The rule of making friends still apply for immigrants, it’s just a bit harder than natives.
- creakingstairs 3y ago
  > Another factor I think is whether you come from a “welcomed” country. Definitely a factor. My wife is not Asian and she gets way more opportunities than me to make friends in Japan, though it is a double edged sword as being treated differently can get really annoying after a while.
  - lynx23 3y ago
    > as being treated differently can get really annoying after a while Yes, I can relate. I am blind, and 90% of all the interactions I have with strangers in public spaces are drenched in pity and patronisation. Being special sucks!
- lynx23 3y ago
  I am honestly curious, what countries do you refer to when you say not-welcomed countries? The first thing that came to mind was Germany, but I am guessing you were not talking about that... Never forget that hostilities towards people from specific countries is a rather subjective phenomenon. What is religion to one person, is completely unacceptable to others.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    in china for example white people are very welcome, black people not so much. in europe white people can blend in, so even if they are not welcome they will not be rejected. but people that look different and have a different culture are looked upon suspiciously. not everyone is doing this of course, it's very subtle, and fortunately there are also open minded people
  - cableshaft 3y ago
    Here's a few possibilities: There's still a lot of hatred towards Middle Eastern people because 'they're all terrorists', although it seems to me that has died down a bit. From the posts of a local Arab woman I'm friends with on Facebook, it still seems pretty bad here, just not quite as blatant anymore. Chinese hate ramped up again since 2020, with all the talk about them being the enemy of the US on the right and many people blaming the country for Covid-19. And while I think most people try not to hold anything against the Russian people for the Russian invasion of Ukraine, (especially Russians that have left the country), there will quite a few that won't. I can imagine if you're Ukranian you probably will struggle to be friendly with any Russian right now, for example.

F-W-M 3y ago

I live in germany and work in an international company. I am the only german on my team. A lot of the younger colleagues blame their difficulties on making friends on german racism and stay in their expat circles, but the truth is: it's hard for everyone here.

whstl 3y ago
I'm an expat (immigrant?) in Germany. IME expat circles are a problem in itself. People who cling to them end up leaving much quicker than people who mingle with natives, or mingle with people from other nationalities. Not only you don't make long-term friends in those circles (because people are constantly leaving the country), but there's a lot of negativity and shit talking. You need to at least make an attempt to adapt, and those circles can be a replacement to that.
- LeanderK 3y ago
  it mirrors a bit the experience I had in university with foreign students/phd students. Some immigrants are only friends with immigrants from the same country and it was surprising to hear that after spending years (sometimes BSc/Msc/Phd or Work) they are completely unable to say a single word in german, have no german friends etc. Usually very unapproachable und uncomfortable to talk to. Others with mixed groups of friends were way more approachable, I was surprised by some how well they are able to speak the language after just a few years.
- CRConrad 3y ago
  > I'm an expat Mefh... > (immigrant?) Upvote.
RamblingCTO 3y ago
I live in a very international big German city, so we have plenty of expats. But what I notice is that they are generally shy to approach others, initiating contact or driving the conversation actively. They also tend to stick together in expat groups. So it's a turn off for me if I have to carry the conversation. It's easy to blame the people for shrugging off immigrants but I feel it's their duty to check the local concepts and expectations for communication and relationships. I also feel that this is generally only true for non-western immigrants. Never had any problems with aussies or americans. I also agree that making friends is very hard in Germany, but absolutely doable. My life hack: use "Neu in $city" facebook groups, go to boulder gyms and be open minded, smile and take initiative. Talk to people! And then build groups, as mentioned in the top comment (atm).

tenlp 3y ago

as I noticed,the people that from China are always tend to hang on with same culture and the same language,many of them,even have much more effect in social media, are still only in the mandarin speaker group

langsoul-com 3y ago

It's pretty universal for people to hang with groups that are similar to them. Expats hang with Expats, natives with natives etc etc. Tends to be easier

em-bee 3y ago
it's easier, but for me it defeats the purpose of visiting or living in a different country. so i prefer to stay away from expat groups. fortunately the local linux user groups or other tech groups in the places i have been to had more locals or a mix of locals and foreigners, and i was able to make a few very good local friends that way.

daniel_reetz 3y ago

I would be very interested in hearing/reading more about the Indian definition of a friend VS North American. I've seen what you describe, but for me, I personally relish the opportunity to be the person someone calls when they need help, and also to show someone what I enjoy about a city. I'm much less good at just hanging out or reaching out. For what it's worth, I lived for a while in Russia and friendship is different there, too.