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My personal theory is that suburban sprawl killed the "third place" in modern society. If you have to drive to a place to socialize (which probably involve drin

My personal theory is that suburban sprawl killed the "third place" in modern society. If you have to drive to a place to socialize (which probably involve drinking), then you're probably not going. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place

Zach_the_Lizard 3y ago
My hypothesis is it's connected to the decline in religion, or, more specifically, the mandatory church on Sunday type of religion, no matter what flavor it took. A built in semi-mandatory third place seems pretty nifty as far as building social relationships goes. I'm an atheist but I do remember building bonds this way in those heady pre-smartphone days. It's a shame the baby is stuck in the bathwater.
- waboremo 3y ago
  The decline in religion happened after the increase of convenience. Hence the popularity of televised religious content.
  - mcv 3y ago
    My church started streaming services during the Covid lockdowns, but it's really not the same as being there.
- hoseja 3y ago
  I think it's deliberate because plebs socializing is a destabilizing factor to the state.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Religious buildings can be third places, but the kind Christian churches that have faded out of American public life fail the “neutral ground” condition: there’s usually strong social and community pressure to make appearances, meaning that individuals can’t come and go as they please. This is in contrast with dominant religions (including Christianity) in other countries.
- slothtrop 3y ago
  Suicide rates in men are highest in rural areas, which also have highest Church attendance. Does not track. From experience, going to church doesn't necessarily mean you'll connect with other families. At most I've seen extended family co-mingling at a family member's place or resto after service. Living in the city, there is no shortage of ways to connect with others on the physical plane, should one choose to do so. Though it's hampered by zoning and the convenience of the virtualization of all experiences.
mantas 3y ago
I don't think so. I'm not in US, but here „third place“ was not a thing regardless of density. In fact, now climbing out of ex-soviet past (read poverty and totalitarian regime preventing the third place as well as urban sprawl), we got both urban sprawl and growth of the „third place“. Well, little growth from next-to-none. Which is hitting a low ceiling of rather intraverted culture that is caught up in TV and interwebs. Why go to bars if everybody is sitting in tight groups-of-friends and scrolling together... Ironically, somewhat-third-place, seems to be most active in suburbs and rural areas. Where neighbours need to work together to solve various community issues. And that turns into partying together as well. It's common to have a community house where everybody can use the space for organising whatever, from playing table games to art classes to random lectures to movie nights. While densier cities seem to be less socializing outside of family&friends circles.
enaaem 3y ago
I just came back from Vietnam and I noticed that many Western countries lack low intensity socialising. There are tea carts everywhere. People sit, sip tea or some other light beverage and just do nothing. They’re close to others who are also doing nothing with whom they may or may not engage with. Bars and clubs are too intense, too expensive and unappealing if you don’t drink alcohol. At libraries and coffeeshops people are often busy.
- nicbou 3y ago
  Most of Europe has a café culture. It is sorely missing from North America. You just sit outside and watch the world go by. Berlin in particular has lots of parks, and people can go there with drinks, grills, frisbees etc. The sheer number of them means that most people are within walking distance from one. It’s great to meet without spending money. Again, those are almost absent in most of North America. You have to drive to them, so they’re inaccessible to kids. My hometown made loitering almost illegal in them anyway.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    Illegal to 'loiter' in a park? What does legal use of it look like? Moving through at a swift pace with eyes straight ahead and a stamped permit that it's the most efficient path to your destination?
    - mantas 3y ago
      Hustle! Hustle everywhere!
    - i80and 3y ago
      My personal* experience is that in areas of the US where real estate is highly valued, there's a low level resentment of anybody existing without having an intent to spend money. Parks are tolerated, but the expectation is that they're purely cosmetic, to be walked through at the very most. * My experience is not universal and is just that: my personal experience.
    - amalcon 3y ago
chrisallenlane 3y ago
Work-from-home (as much as I love it) has also killed the "second place" for a lot of people. Not to mention grocery delivery apps and such. Just speaking personally, it's perhaps a little too easy to never leave my home. Doing so now requires a deliberate decision.

Zach_the_Lizard 3y ago

My hypothesis is it's connected to the decline in religion, or, more specifically, the mandatory church on Sunday type of religion, no matter what flavor it took. A built in semi-mandatory third place seems pretty nifty as far as building social relationships goes. I'm an atheist but I do remember building bonds this way in those heady pre-smartphone days. It's a shame the baby is stuck in the bathwater.

waboremo 3y ago
The decline in religion happened after the increase of convenience. Hence the popularity of televised religious content.
- mcv 3y ago
  My church started streaming services during the Covid lockdowns, but it's really not the same as being there.
hoseja 3y ago
I think it's deliberate because plebs socializing is a destabilizing factor to the state.
woodruffw 3y ago
Religious buildings can be third places, but the kind Christian churches that have faded out of American public life fail the “neutral ground” condition: there’s usually strong social and community pressure to make appearances, meaning that individuals can’t come and go as they please. This is in contrast with dominant religions (including Christianity) in other countries.
slothtrop 3y ago
Suicide rates in men are highest in rural areas, which also have highest Church attendance. Does not track. From experience, going to church doesn't necessarily mean you'll connect with other families. At most I've seen extended family co-mingling at a family member's place or resto after service. Living in the city, there is no shortage of ways to connect with others on the physical plane, should one choose to do so. Though it's hampered by zoning and the convenience of the virtualization of all experiences.

mantas 3y ago

I don't think so. I'm not in US, but here „third place“ was not a thing regardless of density. In fact, now climbing out of ex-soviet past (read poverty and totalitarian regime preventing the third place as well as urban sprawl), we got both urban sprawl and growth of the „third place“. Well, little growth from next-to-none. Which is hitting a low ceiling of rather intraverted culture that is caught up in TV and interwebs. Why go to bars if everybody is sitting in tight groups-of-friends and scrolling together... Ironically, somewhat-third-place, seems to be most active in suburbs and rural areas. Where neighbours need to work together to solve various community issues. And that turns into partying together as well. It's common to have a community house where everybody can use the space for organising whatever, from playing table games to art classes to random lectures to movie nights. While densier cities seem to be less socializing outside of family&friends circles.

enaaem 3y ago

I just came back from Vietnam and I noticed that many Western countries lack low intensity socialising. There are tea carts everywhere. People sit, sip tea or some other light beverage and just do nothing. They’re close to others who are also doing nothing with whom they may or may not engage with. Bars and clubs are too intense, too expensive and unappealing if you don’t drink alcohol. At libraries and coffeeshops people are often busy.

nicbou 3y ago
Most of Europe has a café culture. It is sorely missing from North America. You just sit outside and watch the world go by. Berlin in particular has lots of parks, and people can go there with drinks, grills, frisbees etc. The sheer number of them means that most people are within walking distance from one. It’s great to meet without spending money. Again, those are almost absent in most of North America. You have to drive to them, so they’re inaccessible to kids. My hometown made loitering almost illegal in them anyway.
- OJFord 3y ago
  Illegal to 'loiter' in a park? What does legal use of it look like? Moving through at a swift pace with eyes straight ahead and a stamped permit that it's the most efficient path to your destination?
  - mantas 3y ago
    Hustle! Hustle everywhere!
  - i80and 3y ago
    My personal* experience is that in areas of the US where real estate is highly valued, there's a low level resentment of anybody existing without having an intent to spend money. Parks are tolerated, but the expectation is that they're purely cosmetic, to be walked through at the very most. * My experience is not universal and is just that: my personal experience.
  - amalcon 3y ago

chrisallenlane 3y ago

Work-from-home (as much as I love it) has also killed the "second place" for a lot of people. Not to mention grocery delivery apps and such. Just speaking personally, it's perhaps a little too easy to never leave my home. Doing so now requires a deliberate decision.