5 ms·

Any network of users that is large will leak, whether encrypted or not. People are social, and when push comes to shove they're more than willing to throw some

by manv1 3y ago

Any network of users that is large will leak, whether encrypted or not. People are social, and when push comes to shove they're more than willing to throw someone else under the bus. The question is, why hasn't anyone designed a standard cell-like structure for an encrypted communication app? Cell-based structures have been known for a long time. How do you verify + vouch for a new user in a way that's secure yet anonymous? How do you handle anonymous + secure + directed communication?

lesuorac 3y ago
> How do you verify + vouch for a new user in a way that's secure yet anonymous? > How do you handle anonymous + secure + directed communication? I believe the answer is PGP key meet-ups.
- manv1 3y ago
  For a criminal enterprise, FTF authentication is probably fine. You might use PGP keys hidden behind a QR code or something that's user-friendly. But then you have the other operational issues with the cells, like what do you do when your cell is compromised, or how does a cell reattach to the network if an upper level point-of-contact is compromised. And there are administrative issues...like a shared calendar. Payroll. Inventory. Logistics alone makes a cell structure difficult, because logistics means coordination among many people. It would be an interesting project to make for sure.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    I think if you make an actual concerted effort behind FTF it'll work fine due to 6* of separation [1] as well as I would assume once you have the FTF setup working you can just piggy-back on existing systems (i.e. the internet). I assume for a compromise you can just do the same set-up as pre-compromise except at level+1 and level-1 instead of level+1 and level. Figuring out who is compromised is non-trivial but that was the case without a cell structure anyways. Cell structures should make logistics easier. Thing about MergeSort vs BubbleSort. The amount of comparisons needed by MergeSort is less because of the cell structure. If you're trying to make a master calendar, it's going to be easier to have the cells create their own calendar and then merge them at the cell level and then merge those at the next level and etc until they're all merged than have everybody make their own calendar and talk to everybody else to resolve conflicts. IIUC, payroll works this way for the federal government. Treasury has a big pile of money it lumps out to various departments which lump it out to divisions which goes out to actual employees. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation

by manv1 3y ago

lesuorac 3y ago

> How do you verify + vouch for a new user in a way that's secure yet anonymous? > How do you handle anonymous + secure + directed communication? I believe the answer is PGP key meet-ups.

manv1 3y ago
For a criminal enterprise, FTF authentication is probably fine. You might use PGP keys hidden behind a QR code or something that's user-friendly. But then you have the other operational issues with the cells, like what do you do when your cell is compromised, or how does a cell reattach to the network if an upper level point-of-contact is compromised. And there are administrative issues...like a shared calendar. Payroll. Inventory. Logistics alone makes a cell structure difficult, because logistics means coordination among many people. It would be an interesting project to make for sure.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  I think if you make an actual concerted effort behind FTF it'll work fine due to 6* of separation [1] as well as I would assume once you have the FTF setup working you can just piggy-back on existing systems (i.e. the internet). I assume for a compromise you can just do the same set-up as pre-compromise except at level+1 and level-1 instead of level+1 and level. Figuring out who is compromised is non-trivial but that was the case without a cell structure anyways. Cell structures should make logistics easier. Thing about MergeSort vs BubbleSort. The amount of comparisons needed by MergeSort is less because of the cell structure. If you're trying to make a master calendar, it's going to be easier to have the cells create their own calendar and then merge them at the cell level and then merge those at the next level and etc until they're all merged than have everybody make their own calendar and talk to everybody else to resolve conflicts. IIUC, payroll works this way for the federal government. Treasury has a big pile of money it lumps out to various departments which lump it out to divisions which goes out to actual employees. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation