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> From the Roman Emperor Tiberius to the Victorian gardeners of a few generations ago, hotbeds are nothing new. I had no idea Tiberius was a farmer.
by Eric_WVGG 4y ago
> From the Roman Emperor Tiberius to the Victorian gardeners of a few generations ago, hotbeds are nothing new.
I had no idea Tiberius was a farmer.
- GauntletWizard 4y agoMost people were through most of history. When subsistence farming was the primary way of life, it makes sense that kings and emperors were administrators of, and involved in, farming - Or as we'd call them today "Farmers" as opposed to "Farmhands". It is from this that we get Bread and Circuses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_Annonae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_Annonae
- dmreedy 4y agoWhile this is all true (and I think the parent is mostly a joke...), my understanding is that the Roman aristocracy that Tiberius was born into considered themselves Farmers in the same way that the modern American politician identifies with the Small Business Owner (or indeed, if you go far enough back, the Yeoman Farmer). It was more a moral/identity narrative than a thing they actually did. They certainly owned the villas but whether they engaged in any way with the actual work (even in the capacity of "boss") of such places... maybe their servants, or their wives...
- ggm 4y agoSurely Cato the Elder's writing on the economic exploitation of slaves points to a degree of detail in the disposition of cost/benefit against their production? Other fictional writing I read suggests engagement in "trade" was beneath the senatorial classes, and so acquisition of land and it's economic exploitation underwrote what was considered "acceptable" sources of revenue. Oddly, not entirely unlike the British Landed classes. They didn't like to admit that their land holdings had coal mines, where sheep gently grazing was acceptable.
- dmreedy 4y ago> Surely Cato the Elder's writing Cato was, incidentally, a novus homo, not born into a Patrician family. His father was a pleb and a soldier and a farmer, and he was as well. > Other fictional writing I read suggests engagement in "trade" was beneath the senatorial classes [...] Oddly, not entirely unlike the British Landed classes Yeah, the vibe I get was that this was a feature of most? pre-capitalist societies.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago> Yeah, the vibe I get was that this was a feature of most? pre-capitalist societies. Yes, commerce and labor are both taboo for elites in most premodern societies. There are some obvious exceptions; the Phoenicians wouldn't have seen anything wrong with engaging in commerce.
- inawarminister 4y agoYeah, many trading cultures never had this injunction: for example Malay sultans rise and fall with the prosperity of their entrepots, exporting spices and rice and importing chinaware and Indian riches. * On the other hand... Confucianism puts merchants as one of the lower members of society, because they do not add value as artisans. Edo Japan famously had caste of samurai on the top, farmers on the middle, and merchants on the lowest.
- scns 4y ago> a feature of most? pre-capitalist societies My prejudice would be that new money (by trade) is still looked down upon by old money (inherited/landowners/dynasties). By those with low self-esteem.
- dmreedy 4y ago> By those with low self-esteem Exactly the prejudice such old money would (and to your point, still does) hold against "merchants".
- Eric_WVGG 4y agoI had no idea Tiberius was a farmhand.
- sweettea 4y agoDiocletian retired from emperoring to his pride and joy, growing cabbages, and refused folks' urgings to take the throne again.
- hammock 4y agoInspired Gladiator perhaps
- ramses0 4y ago(did you ever watch Failsafe, by the way?)
- hammock 4y agoYes. It was awesome. Thanks for the reco
- gattilorenz 4y agoAnd the very fun play “Romulus der Große” by Friedrich Dürrenmatt, probably. With hens instead of cabbages.
- treeman79 4y agoNot my Cabbages! Perhaps he was an inspiration to the Avatars cabbage guy.
- blacksqr 4y agoHe did a lot of plowing.
- southernplaces7 4y agoMany Roman emperors moonlighted into other interests during their lives. emperor Domitian, son of the emperor Vespasian, for example, wrote what is considered to be one of the world's first known books on hair care for balding men, as a balding man himself who was quite sensitive about his look. Also, it was a largely agrarian society, so even an emperor could have had a few turns at managing fields at some point in their life. When Diocletian, the first of the "Dominate" era emperors, voluntarily left power (the only emperor ever to do so), he returned to his palatial fortress on the Croatian coast to pursue gardening and especially cabbage farming. At one point after his retirement, a group of senators from Rome was dispatched to visit him and convince him to go back into the purple due to the collapse of the tetrarchic system he'd set up for Imperial administration. While the senators argued with him, Diocletian famously brought them to his garden and pulled out one of his own cabbages. He then asked the senators how they could expect him to possibly come back to the stresses of Rome when he had managed to raise such beautiful cabbages in the peace of his new home.
- saalweachter 4y agoAlso, there was no Netflix back then, and, like, four books to read. What else were you going to do?
- UncleEntity 4y agoConquer and pillage?
- southernplaces7 4y agoJoke aside, to wealthy and powerful Romans of the time, many thousands, maybe tens of thousands of books and tracts would have been available, possibly even to middle class people. There were even publishing industries and trends akin to reduced versions of today's best seller phenomenon. Someone like Diocletian, Vespasian or his son Domitian wouldn't have had much trouble with interesting literature.
- saalweachter 4y ago
- devnullbrain 4y agoThe awkward phrasing is SEO spam.