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And yet Porsche, Range Rover, Rivian etc manage to sell the same cars globally. I'm not a rocket science/engineering/business genius like Musk but pretty sure

And yet Porsche, Range Rover, Rivian etc manage to sell the same cars globally. I'm not a rocket science/engineering/business genius like Musk but pretty sure having one design that may require some minor regional modifications is going to be significantly cheaper than having two completely different cars.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Porsche (~300k units/year) and Range Rover (~90k units/year) are niche brands, Rivian isn't even profitable and a volume manufacturer. Conversely, the Model Y was the US' 6th best selling vehicle last year [1], is currently the 4th best selling vehicle in 2023, and will likely the world's best selling car in 2023 [2] based on demand and supply forecasts. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/629993/tesla-model-y-6th-bestselling/ https://insideevs.com/news/629993/tesla-model-y-6th-bestsell... [2] https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1177/tesla-model-y-set-to-take-top-spot-as-world-s-best-selling-car-in-2023 https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1177/tesla-model-y-set-to-... > According to a report from Focus to Move, the Model Y is now the fourth best-selling vehicle worldwide after an astonishing 88 percent jump from 2021 to 2022. There were 759,000 Model Ys sold last year, just 28,000 units behind the third-place Ford F-150 which has been the best-selling truck for the previous 46 years. Toyota claimed the top two spots, with the RAV4 at 870,000 and the Corolla selling 1.12 million. (waiting on my cybertruck)
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  The Model Y has a very conventional style, so the fact that it sells well would seem to be a point in favor of the GP’s argument. It also sells in many continents, which Cybertruck might not be able to do.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Consider Tesla did not copy existing manufacturers. They built their own markets (S->X->3->Y). People complain online loudly about the touchscreen, quality, but I'll be damned, these units get moved regardless (well on our way to almost 3M/year [1]). For example, Harley can't woo younger riders to the brand because their attempt to acquire them turns off older Harley fans who are slowly dying out. Tesla doesn't have to attract legacy truck owners (Ford, Ram, Chevy), they're targeting young buyers and then locking them into the brand [2]. Buying a car is an emotional purchase [3], they're not going to convert older folks, they're going entrench themselves in youth purchasers as older, sticky auto buyers age out with their legacy preferences. Cybertruck doesn't have to sell well, it just has to have greater demand than supply globally. Global pickup truck market is ~4M/units annually, so Tesla should do just fine carving out some of that for itself. [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2023/01/03/tesla-sales-up-40-to-record-1-37-million-but-thats-not-seen-as-enough/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/01/03/tesla-sales-up-40-to-re... [2] https://electrek.co/2023/02/27/tesla-dominates-brand-loyalty-us-electric-cars-taking-over/ https://electrek.co/2023/02/27/tesla-dominates-brand-loyalty... [3] https://martecgroup.com/emotional-car-buying-journey/ https://martecgroup.com/emotional-car-buying-journey/
    - philwelch 4y ago
      The original Tesla Roadster was based on a Lotus chassis, and the models after that weren’t major deviations from the norm (aside from maybe the gull wings, but even those have some design heritage). Elon was a car guy before Tesla—one of his first splurges when he got rich was a McLaren F1, which he infamously crashed with Peter Thiel in the passenger seat—and as a result, Tesla cars all seem reminiscent of European sports cars. He’s not a truck guy, though. So while his personal tastes have been beneficial for Tesla in the past, I think they miss the mark with Cybertruck. Also, trucks are functional vehicles, and Cybertruck violates a lot of common functionality that most “legacy” trucks have. There are probably a lot of people who drive trucks who don’t need that functionality—i.e. poseurs—and maybe some of them will buy Cybertrucks. Cf. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23331546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23331546
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        Agree, most people who buy trucks don’t use them as trucks. That’s the primary Cybertruck market. Most of life is status and signaling. Sell what people want. https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
    - matthewdgreen 4y ago
      > Consider Tesla did not copy existing manufacturers. I own a Model 3 and was considering a BMW 3-series (non-EV) briefly before I bought the Tesla. While shopping I was surprised to notice how closely the price of Model 3 option packages tracked the BMW equivalent packages, almost within a few dollars (although the Tesla had fewer packages.) It seemed obvious to me that Tesla had done this on purpose, in an effort to carefully market the Model 3 towards an existing successful market. Similarly, the crossover they came out with next was named the “Model Y” and seemed almost perfectly tuned to compete with some of BMW’s popular X-line of crossover SUVs, again an existing market that could easily be optimized against. So while I would not use the word “copy”: it sure seemed like Tesla was carefully targeting existing markets, with slightly more flashy vehicles and similar price points — all with enormous success! The Cybertruck, on the other hand, throws this successful and cautious strategy into the garbage and then backs over it.
  - dingosity 4y ago
    The Cybertruck has to be released before it can fail in the market-place.
    - LammyL 4y ago
      Cybertruck has 1.5 million preorders and revolutionizes the technology used today in cars and trucks. It may be ugly but it will win in every other category.
- threeseed 4y ago
  Porsche and Range Rover are popular in the SUV space. But please explain the thought process. That if a company is popular and profitable they should always build an entirely different product for each country. Makes you wonder why tiny companies like Apple and Nike don't follow this brilliant idea.
- dingosity 4y ago
  And the cybertruck (~0 units/year) is a mainstream brand...

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Porsche (~300k units/year) and Range Rover (~90k units/year) are niche brands, Rivian isn't even profitable and a volume manufacturer. Conversely, the Model Y was the US' 6th best selling vehicle last year [1], is currently the 4th best selling vehicle in 2023, and will likely the world's best selling car in 2023 [2] based on demand and supply forecasts. [1] https://insideevs.com/news/629993/tesla-model-y-6th-bestselling/ https://insideevs.com/news/629993/tesla-model-y-6th-bestsell... [2] https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1177/tesla-model-y-set-to-take-top-spot-as-world-s-best-selling-car-in-2023 https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1177/tesla-model-y-set-to-... > According to a report from Focus to Move, the Model Y is now the fourth best-selling vehicle worldwide after an astonishing 88 percent jump from 2021 to 2022. There were 759,000 Model Ys sold last year, just 28,000 units behind the third-place Ford F-150 which has been the best-selling truck for the previous 46 years. Toyota claimed the top two spots, with the RAV4 at 870,000 and the Corolla selling 1.12 million. (waiting on my cybertruck)

matthewdgreen 4y ago
The Model Y has a very conventional style, so the fact that it sells well would seem to be a point in favor of the GP’s argument. It also sells in many continents, which Cybertruck might not be able to do.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Consider Tesla did not copy existing manufacturers. They built their own markets (S->X->3->Y). People complain online loudly about the touchscreen, quality, but I'll be damned, these units get moved regardless (well on our way to almost 3M/year [1]). For example, Harley can't woo younger riders to the brand because their attempt to acquire them turns off older Harley fans who are slowly dying out. Tesla doesn't have to attract legacy truck owners (Ford, Ram, Chevy), they're targeting young buyers and then locking them into the brand [2]. Buying a car is an emotional purchase [3], they're not going to convert older folks, they're going entrench themselves in youth purchasers as older, sticky auto buyers age out with their legacy preferences. Cybertruck doesn't have to sell well, it just has to have greater demand than supply globally. Global pickup truck market is ~4M/units annually, so Tesla should do just fine carving out some of that for itself. [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2023/01/03/tesla-sales-up-40-to-record-1-37-million-but-thats-not-seen-as-enough/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/01/03/tesla-sales-up-40-to-re... [2] https://electrek.co/2023/02/27/tesla-dominates-brand-loyalty-us-electric-cars-taking-over/ https://electrek.co/2023/02/27/tesla-dominates-brand-loyalty... [3] https://martecgroup.com/emotional-car-buying-journey/ https://martecgroup.com/emotional-car-buying-journey/
  - philwelch 4y ago
    The original Tesla Roadster was based on a Lotus chassis, and the models after that weren’t major deviations from the norm (aside from maybe the gull wings, but even those have some design heritage). Elon was a car guy before Tesla—one of his first splurges when he got rich was a McLaren F1, which he infamously crashed with Peter Thiel in the passenger seat—and as a result, Tesla cars all seem reminiscent of European sports cars. He’s not a truck guy, though. So while his personal tastes have been beneficial for Tesla in the past, I think they miss the mark with Cybertruck. Also, trucks are functional vehicles, and Cybertruck violates a lot of common functionality that most “legacy” trucks have. There are probably a lot of people who drive trucks who don’t need that functionality—i.e. poseurs—and maybe some of them will buy Cybertrucks. Cf. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23331546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23331546
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Agree, most people who buy trucks don’t use them as trucks. That’s the primary Cybertruck market. Most of life is status and signaling. Sell what people want. https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    > Consider Tesla did not copy existing manufacturers. I own a Model 3 and was considering a BMW 3-series (non-EV) briefly before I bought the Tesla. While shopping I was surprised to notice how closely the price of Model 3 option packages tracked the BMW equivalent packages, almost within a few dollars (although the Tesla had fewer packages.) It seemed obvious to me that Tesla had done this on purpose, in an effort to carefully market the Model 3 towards an existing successful market. Similarly, the crossover they came out with next was named the “Model Y” and seemed almost perfectly tuned to compete with some of BMW’s popular X-line of crossover SUVs, again an existing market that could easily be optimized against. So while I would not use the word “copy”: it sure seemed like Tesla was carefully targeting existing markets, with slightly more flashy vehicles and similar price points — all with enormous success! The Cybertruck, on the other hand, throws this successful and cautious strategy into the garbage and then backs over it.
- dingosity 4y ago
  The Cybertruck has to be released before it can fail in the market-place.
  - LammyL 4y ago
    Cybertruck has 1.5 million preorders and revolutionizes the technology used today in cars and trucks. It may be ugly but it will win in every other category.
threeseed 4y ago
Porsche and Range Rover are popular in the SUV space. But please explain the thought process. That if a company is popular and profitable they should always build an entirely different product for each country. Makes you wonder why tiny companies like Apple and Nike don't follow this brilliant idea.
dingosity 4y ago
And the cybertruck (~0 units/year) is a mainstream brand...