3 ms·

Could you say more about how you were frozen out? (or link to it if you've already written about it) Thanks in advance!

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
Well, it's kind of a well-worn whine, with me. If you browse through my history, you'll see me mention it, from time to time. TL;DR: I worked four jobs, in my career, with the last one being 27 years (25 of them as a manager, as well as tech). That was at a pretty highfalutin joint (a famous Japanese imaging company). I finally got laid off, at 55, and started looking for work, and found the culture had changed drastically (I actually had done fairly well at keeping up with the tech, as that was my job). Old people like me, were very unpopular. The interview process was pretty damn humiliating. It was made clear, that, even if some company did me the huge favor of granting me a job, I would be treated like crap. It was personal. People didn't like me, because of my age. In a couple of cases, they didn't bother hiding it, at all. I decided "Bugger this for a lark," and retired early. I had the means, but hadn't been planning on it, for at least another decade. As it has turned out, it was a blessing in disguise. Being able to do my own designs, process, and releasing, has been a joy. I've had to keep the scope humble, but it's really been great. I'm working with a nonprofit startup, where I'm actually helping a few younger folks to learn the ins and outs of what it takes to ship software. I like working. I would have been happy to work for a great deal less than most folks, was willing to take risks on startups (as I was already set, anyway), had thirty years' experience shipping, would have been loyal, honorable, and had a fairly vast array of skills and experience, but, you know...eewww...gray hair...
- yodsanklai 4y ago
  It's very sad, and that'll affect most of us. Ironically, with all the "woke" thing going on, you would expect people to be more inclusive, but it's not the case.
  - esafak 4y ago
    Age is not a variable in anyone's DEI calculus.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
      Ageism is actually just as illegal as racism, homophobia, sexism, or religious bigotry. Hard to prove, though (unless you are IBM, and discussing it via emails). It’s just that the American culture, writ large, and, more specifically, the tech industry, has deified youth, to a ridiculous level. It’s sort of a “cargo cult/magical thinking” thing, where people think younger folks can do the impossible, because they don’t have any old people around, telling them that it’s impossible. Also, my generation has done a pretty good job of screwing things up, and it’s fairly understandable, that the succeeding generations have some resentment, about that. Eh. It’s water under the bridge, for me, these days. I’m still miffed, but it’s not something I chew over, every night, before bed (I did for a while -I was pissed off). I have lot to do. It would be nice to have the money, and nice to have folks to work with, but I’ve adjusted.
      - switchbak 4y ago
        I heard a very similar story about Kent Beck's father. We also interviewed a couple superstar candidates at my company that somehow never progressed through. I'm just about 45 now, though I'm still able to pass as in my 30's for a while still. But I'm trying to plan for a future where I'm boxed out of doing a job I'm very good at. This seems like an easy competitive advantage and hiring edge, not sure why some haven't really taken it on.
        ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
        > not sure why some haven't really taken it on. I thought about it, but, in my case, I hated being a manager, and founding something like that would have taken a lot of non-technical, manager-style work. In my current position, I am mentoring, but in a much less "official" capacity, and I'm very "hands-on" technical.
      - esafak 4y ago
- derwiki 4y ago
  Thank you for the detailed response--I found this entire subthread interesting!

Well, it's kind of a well-worn whine, with me. If you browse through my history, you'll see me mention it, from time to time. TL;DR: I worked four jobs, in my career, with the last one being 27 years (25 of them as a manager, as well as tech). That was at a pretty highfalutin joint (a famous Japanese imaging company). I finally got laid off, at 55, and started looking for work, and found the culture had changed drastically (I actually had done fairly well at keeping up with the tech, as that was my job). Old people like me, were very unpopular. The interview process was pretty damn humiliating. It was made clear, that, even if some company did me the huge favor of granting me a job, I would be treated like crap. It was personal. People didn't like me, because of my age. In a couple of cases, they didn't bother hiding it, at all. I decided "Bugger this for a lark," and retired early. I had the means, but hadn't been planning on it, for at least another decade. As it has turned out, it was a blessing in disguise. Being able to do my own designs, process, and releasing, has been a joy. I've had to keep the scope humble, but it's really been great. I'm working with a nonprofit startup, where I'm actually helping a few younger folks to learn the ins and outs of what it takes to ship software. I like working. I would have been happy to work for a great deal less than most folks, was willing to take risks on startups (as I was already set, anyway), had thirty years' experience shipping, would have been loyal, honorable, and had a fairly vast array of skills and experience, but, you know...eewww...gray hair...

yodsanklai 4y ago
It's very sad, and that'll affect most of us. Ironically, with all the "woke" thing going on, you would expect people to be more inclusive, but it's not the case.
- esafak 4y ago
  Age is not a variable in anyone's DEI calculus.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    Ageism is actually just as illegal as racism, homophobia, sexism, or religious bigotry. Hard to prove, though (unless you are IBM, and discussing it via emails). It’s just that the American culture, writ large, and, more specifically, the tech industry, has deified youth, to a ridiculous level. It’s sort of a “cargo cult/magical thinking” thing, where people think younger folks can do the impossible, because they don’t have any old people around, telling them that it’s impossible. Also, my generation has done a pretty good job of screwing things up, and it’s fairly understandable, that the succeeding generations have some resentment, about that. Eh. It’s water under the bridge, for me, these days. I’m still miffed, but it’s not something I chew over, every night, before bed (I did for a while -I was pissed off). I have lot to do. It would be nice to have the money, and nice to have folks to work with, but I’ve adjusted.
    - switchbak 4y ago
      I heard a very similar story about Kent Beck's father. We also interviewed a couple superstar candidates at my company that somehow never progressed through. I'm just about 45 now, though I'm still able to pass as in my 30's for a while still. But I'm trying to plan for a future where I'm boxed out of doing a job I'm very good at. This seems like an easy competitive advantage and hiring edge, not sure why some haven't really taken it on.
      - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
        > not sure why some haven't really taken it on. I thought about it, but, in my case, I hated being a manager, and founding something like that would have taken a lot of non-technical, manager-style work. In my current position, I am mentoring, but in a much less "official" capacity, and I'm very "hands-on" technical.
    - esafak 4y ago
derwiki 4y ago
Thank you for the detailed response--I found this entire subthread interesting!