4 ms·

If you are filling up less than once a week/once every two weeks you are risking stale gas and extra wear and tear on an internal combustion engine when you do

If you are filling up less than once a week/once every two weeks you are risking stale gas and extra wear and tear on an internal combustion engine when you do use it, generally increasing the risk of expensive maintenance and still much higher TCO. For a remote worker with a vehicle that moves irregularly an EV is still cheaper and easier and more convenient. A battery charge doesn't "go stale" and you aren't going to get engine rattles and knocking or accidentally melted fuel lines from "old electrons".

nicenewtemp84 4y ago
What you're talking about here with stale gas is true... At maybe the 6 month mark. Not a week.
- duffyjp 4y ago
  We used to own a plug-in hybrid and it would keep track of when you filled up and occasionally force you to consume the gas in the tank. I want to say it was if you hadn't filled up in 6~9 months? Something like that. We always buy ethanol free gas too, which lasts for years. I don't even empty our lawn mower over winter, it doesn't matter with real gas and a sealed tank.
mikestew 4y ago
I'm a big EV fan who just dropped $60K on our second EV (my comment is probably still at the top of this page). I also used to be a professional auto mechanic, and I can tell you from both professional experience and personal (because we still have a rarely-driven ICE) that there is little basis in truth to what you posted. If you are filling up less than once a week/once every two weeks you are risking stale gas and extra wear and tear on an internal combustion engine when you do use it... No, the gas will have to sit much longer than that. We drove our previous EV for twelve years, while filling up the ICE Scion about once a month (if that). That Scion is still running just fine twelve years later. Don't even ask how long the gas sits in the VW camper van. I'd bet real money I go out, turn the key, and it'll fire up just fine. I'm all for encouraging folks to get an EV, but inaccurate information only hurts the cause.
- Vrondi 4y ago
  Refreshing to hear an nice, truthful voice of sanity in a discussion about EVs. I know people are all super hyped about feeling like they are helping the environment, but the sheer amount of classist untruths spouted about EVs vs. ICEs online is noxious. I mean, there are enough real pros to appeal to those that want to be early adopters without all the self-righteousness out there. Anyway, thank you for your refreshingly grounded-in-reality comment.
  - spiderice 4y ago
    > Refreshing to hear an nice, truthful voice of sanity in a discussion about EVs Followed by > I know people are all super hyped about feeling like they are helping the environment I hope the irony isn't lost on you here.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  That's a great anecdote. For what it is worth, I have anecdotes of people that refueled infrequently enough that they suffered big ICE problems later in the vehicle's life. I wouldn't say that there is "little basis in truth" if there is an entire industry of fuel additives to make things safer/cleaner/"better" for infrequently fueled ICE vehicles and entire gossips worth of advice on how long a motor should run before highway speeds, etc to make sure that the fuel is safe. I chose a short time window because the problem I was referring to was total cost of ownership and long-term build up/slow break down, so I don't believe it was "inaccurate" just very (intentionally) pessimistic. I'm sorry it wasn't clearer enough that it was a pessimistic estimate on longer term horizons. I definitely understand there are lots of anecdotes and data on both sides, and that I have a stronger distrust of gasoline than many people do (in part because some of my own anecdotes).
qball 4y ago
>A battery charge doesn't "go stale" Yes it does- cells slowly self-discharge when not in use and have their range affected by temperature swings to the degree that, for certain cars (mainly the Leaf), the weather will dictate if you're going to make it to work and back or not. >an EV is still cheaper and easier and more convenient I can't buy an EV for $10,000 that has more than 60 miles of maximum range and recharges in less than 10 minutes, so every one of those points is wrong. Oh yeah, and I don't have to spend an hour per week waiting for it to charge it because it holds what is, at current burn rates, a month's worth of fuel (I can't take advantage of home charging unless I want to move and thus burn several hundred more a month on rent- and several hundred dollars can buy a lot of gas). The electricity itself might be cheap but everything else isn't. >generally increasing the risk of expensive maintenance Cars that run on gas are extremely reliable even past 100,000 miles, and have been for the past 20 years now (even the American-made ones). I give worse odds to the electric power packs that by their nature are cumulatively damaged when refueled; exhibit A being the Leaf, of course.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  >>an EV is still cheaper > I can't buy an EV for $10,000 Again, cheaper with respect to total cost of ownership. The point remains that that TCO is cheaper even if you can't find some super cheap ones in up front costs (yet). > recharges in less than 10 minutes May I suggest a horse? If this is your qualification for an EV you are tilting against windmills. > Oh yeah, and I don't have to spend an hour per week waiting for it to charge it because it holds what is, at current burn rates, a month's worth of fuel I'm really confused by your math here: EVs hold on average a "month's worth of fuel" for you so you'd need to charge it every week? Isn't that just an hour a month charging time then if it is a "month's worth of fuel" you are charging? > Cars that run on gas are extremely reliable even past 100,000 miles, and have been for the past 20 years now (even the American-made ones). I give worse odds to the electric power packs that by their nature are cumulatively damaged when refueled; exhibit A being the Leaf, of course. Plenty of Leafs have already made it past 100,000 miles on their first and only battery. Statistically the number of replaced batteries in Leafs is insignificant. Plus, recent Leafs finally have active battery temperature management. The excuse of "but Leaf battery degradation" is on its way out, sorry.
Vrondi 4y ago
The gasoline would realistically need to be sitting unused in that tank for months to have a chance of "being stale". I've started vehicles that have sat unused for 6 months+ before with no trouble from the gas (the battery is more likely to die if unused for a long time).

nicenewtemp84 4y ago

What you're talking about here with stale gas is true... At maybe the 6 month mark. Not a week.

duffyjp 4y ago
We used to own a plug-in hybrid and it would keep track of when you filled up and occasionally force you to consume the gas in the tank. I want to say it was if you hadn't filled up in 6~9 months? Something like that. We always buy ethanol free gas too, which lasts for years. I don't even empty our lawn mower over winter, it doesn't matter with real gas and a sealed tank.

mikestew 4y ago

I'm a big EV fan who just dropped $60K on our second EV (my comment is probably still at the top of this page). I also used to be a professional auto mechanic, and I can tell you from both professional experience and personal (because we still have a rarely-driven ICE) that there is little basis in truth to what you posted. If you are filling up less than once a week/once every two weeks you are risking stale gas and extra wear and tear on an internal combustion engine when you do use it... No, the gas will have to sit much longer than that. We drove our previous EV for twelve years, while filling up the ICE Scion about once a month (if that). That Scion is still running just fine twelve years later. Don't even ask how long the gas sits in the VW camper van. I'd bet real money I go out, turn the key, and it'll fire up just fine. I'm all for encouraging folks to get an EV, but inaccurate information only hurts the cause.

Vrondi 4y ago
Refreshing to hear an nice, truthful voice of sanity in a discussion about EVs. I know people are all super hyped about feeling like they are helping the environment, but the sheer amount of classist untruths spouted about EVs vs. ICEs online is noxious. I mean, there are enough real pros to appeal to those that want to be early adopters without all the self-righteousness out there. Anyway, thank you for your refreshingly grounded-in-reality comment.
- spiderice 4y ago
  > Refreshing to hear an nice, truthful voice of sanity in a discussion about EVs Followed by > I know people are all super hyped about feeling like they are helping the environment I hope the irony isn't lost on you here.
WorldMaker 4y ago
That's a great anecdote. For what it is worth, I have anecdotes of people that refueled infrequently enough that they suffered big ICE problems later in the vehicle's life. I wouldn't say that there is "little basis in truth" if there is an entire industry of fuel additives to make things safer/cleaner/"better" for infrequently fueled ICE vehicles and entire gossips worth of advice on how long a motor should run before highway speeds, etc to make sure that the fuel is safe. I chose a short time window because the problem I was referring to was total cost of ownership and long-term build up/slow break down, so I don't believe it was "inaccurate" just very (intentionally) pessimistic. I'm sorry it wasn't clearer enough that it was a pessimistic estimate on longer term horizons. I definitely understand there are lots of anecdotes and data on both sides, and that I have a stronger distrust of gasoline than many people do (in part because some of my own anecdotes).

qball 4y ago

>A battery charge doesn't "go stale" Yes it does- cells slowly self-discharge when not in use and have their range affected by temperature swings to the degree that, for certain cars (mainly the Leaf), the weather will dictate if you're going to make it to work and back or not. >an EV is still cheaper and easier and more convenient I can't buy an EV for $10,000 that has more than 60 miles of maximum range and recharges in less than 10 minutes, so every one of those points is wrong. Oh yeah, and I don't have to spend an hour per week waiting for it to charge it because it holds what is, at current burn rates, a month's worth of fuel (I can't take advantage of home charging unless I want to move and thus burn several hundred more a month on rent- and several hundred dollars can buy a lot of gas). The electricity itself might be cheap but everything else isn't. >generally increasing the risk of expensive maintenance Cars that run on gas are extremely reliable even past 100,000 miles, and have been for the past 20 years now (even the American-made ones). I give worse odds to the electric power packs that by their nature are cumulatively damaged when refueled; exhibit A being the Leaf, of course.

WorldMaker 4y ago
>>an EV is still cheaper > I can't buy an EV for $10,000 Again, cheaper with respect to total cost of ownership. The point remains that that TCO is cheaper even if you can't find some super cheap ones in up front costs (yet). > recharges in less than 10 minutes May I suggest a horse? If this is your qualification for an EV you are tilting against windmills. > Oh yeah, and I don't have to spend an hour per week waiting for it to charge it because it holds what is, at current burn rates, a month's worth of fuel I'm really confused by your math here: EVs hold on average a "month's worth of fuel" for you so you'd need to charge it every week? Isn't that just an hour a month charging time then if it is a "month's worth of fuel" you are charging? > Cars that run on gas are extremely reliable even past 100,000 miles, and have been for the past 20 years now (even the American-made ones). I give worse odds to the electric power packs that by their nature are cumulatively damaged when refueled; exhibit A being the Leaf, of course. Plenty of Leafs have already made it past 100,000 miles on their first and only battery. Statistically the number of replaced batteries in Leafs is insignificant. Plus, recent Leafs finally have active battery temperature management. The excuse of "but Leaf battery degradation" is on its way out, sorry.

Vrondi 4y ago

The gasoline would realistically need to be sitting unused in that tank for months to have a chance of "being stale". I've started vehicles that have sat unused for 6 months+ before with no trouble from the gas (the battery is more likely to die if unused for a long time).