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To be a 60 year old software engineer now you would have to have started in 1984. (Assuming graduating age 21 and going straight into work*) There just wasn't

To be a 60 year old software engineer now you would have to have started in 1984. (Assuming graduating age 21 and going straight into work*) There just wasn't the same number of developers back then. I can't find good numbers, but according to [1], there were 612,000 developers in the US in 2002, compared to 4.4 million in 2023 in the. It's reasonable to assume that there were probably an order of magnitude less again in 1984. So very little opportunity to become a 60 year old software engineer in 2023. I'd hazard a guess that in another 40 years there will be a lot more 60 year old developers. (Either that, or zero because ChatGPT 15 has taken over) [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering_demographics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineering_demogra... * Yes, I know this doesn't quite hold as I'm sure people switched careers. Particularly early on in the computer industry where I imagine many people switched into software from more technical electrical/hardware type roles. But I still think the major point still stands which is the main reason for the lack of older developers now, is just the lack of younger developers 40 years ago.

mnky9800n 3y ago
So a bit more than 1% of all Americans is developing software. I wonder what fraction are truck drivers?
- umeshunni 3y ago
  Quick search: > 7.99 million people employed throughout the economy in jobs that relate to trucking activity in 2021 so, about 2.5%
  - mnky9800n 3y ago
    fascinating.
  - ptero 3y ago
    To nitpick, the number of actual truck drivers is likely much lower. My guess is 2.5% includes mechanics, loaders, dispatchers, etc.
    - bumby 3y ago
      ONet lists ~2.1MM tractor trailer truck drivers.[1] BLS lists ~132MM total 16+ year old workers in the US. Or 117MM working full-time. [2] So about 1.6% - 1.8% maybe a bit more accurate? [1] https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/53-3032.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/53-3032.00 [2] https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm
gopalv 3y ago
> be a 60 year old software engineer now you would have to have started in 1984 My uncle is a 60 year old software developer, but he started writing software much later in life. He started off in EE working for Sperry, went with the divisions wherever they went and switched over at the ripe old age of 47. His previous work was all about state machines, so is his new work. So "40 years of experience" isn't the same as 60 years old developer. There's more of the EE/Physics grad turned software developer around than people who wrote software in the 80s.
petemir 3y ago
Adding anecdata, but my mother just turned 70 and is still software engineer (Edit: cobol and rpg still pay off! :)). She never went the manager path, preferring talking with computers rather than humans seems to run in the family :).
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
I started in '83 (paid to code, at 84-5). I would still be working for someone, except the industry doesn't believe that I should be. I was frozen out, pretty hard. Instead, I work for free. I really enjoy coding, and it's actually been vastly freeing, having my own schedule and structure.
- derwiki 3y ago
  Could you say more about how you were frozen out? (or link to it if you've already written about it) Thanks in advance!
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    Well, it's kind of a well-worn whine, with me. If you browse through my history, you'll see me mention it, from time to time. TL;DR: I worked four jobs, in my career, with the last one being 27 years (25 of them as a manager, as well as tech). That was at a pretty highfalutin joint (a famous Japanese imaging company). I finally got laid off, at 55, and started looking for work, and found the culture had changed drastically (I actually had done fairly well at keeping up with the tech, as that was my job). Old people like me, were very unpopular. The interview process was pretty damn humiliating. It was made clear, that, even if some company did me the huge favor of granting me a job, I would be treated like crap. It was personal. People didn't like me, because of my age. In a couple of cases, they didn't bother hiding it, at all. I decided "Bugger this for a lark," and retired early. I had the means, but hadn't been planning on it, for at least another decade. As it has turned out, it was a blessing in disguise. Being able to do my own designs, process, and releasing, has been a joy. I've had to keep the scope humble, but it's really been great. I'm working with a nonprofit startup, where I'm actually helping a few younger folks to learn the ins and outs of what it takes to ship software. I like working. I would have been happy to work for a great deal less than most folks, was willing to take risks on startups (as I was already set, anyway), had thirty years' experience shipping, would have been loyal, honorable, and had a fairly vast array of skills and experience, but, you know...eewww...gray hair...
    - 3y ago
cdkmoose 3y ago
I'll be a 60 year old software engineer next year(class of '87), my brother just retired as a 60 year old engineer(class of '85). We exist but the educational/career pathways at that time were very limited.
mech422 3y ago
I've been programming professionally for 45 years now (55 atm). Started writing invoicing systems on heathkits and database systems for real estate on C-64..then Cobol/PL1,C,Perl,Python.. oh - and I don't have any degree at all. I'm quite optimistic I'll be able to work another 5+ years, if I choose to..
Taniwha 3y ago
I'm turning 65 in a couple of months, been making a living doing this stuff for money since I was in college - started programming 53 years ago (using cards) - in '84 I moved to the US I think most of the people I worked with then are working now

mnky9800n 3y ago

So a bit more than 1% of all Americans is developing software. I wonder what fraction are truck drivers?

umeshunni 3y ago
Quick search: > 7.99 million people employed throughout the economy in jobs that relate to trucking activity in 2021 so, about 2.5%
- mnky9800n 3y ago
  fascinating.
- ptero 3y ago
  To nitpick, the number of actual truck drivers is likely much lower. My guess is 2.5% includes mechanics, loaders, dispatchers, etc.
  - bumby 3y ago
    ONet lists ~2.1MM tractor trailer truck drivers.[1] BLS lists ~132MM total 16+ year old workers in the US. Or 117MM working full-time. [2] So about 1.6% - 1.8% maybe a bit more accurate? [1] https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/53-3032.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/53-3032.00 [2] https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat08.htm

gopalv 3y ago

> be a 60 year old software engineer now you would have to have started in 1984 My uncle is a 60 year old software developer, but he started writing software much later in life. He started off in EE working for Sperry, went with the divisions wherever they went and switched over at the ripe old age of 47. His previous work was all about state machines, so is his new work. So "40 years of experience" isn't the same as 60 years old developer. There's more of the EE/Physics grad turned software developer around than people who wrote software in the 80s.

petemir 3y ago

Adding anecdata, but my mother just turned 70 and is still software engineer (Edit: cobol and rpg still pay off! :)). She never went the manager path, preferring talking with computers rather than humans seems to run in the family :).

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

I started in '83 (paid to code, at 84-5). I would still be working for someone, except the industry doesn't believe that I should be. I was frozen out, pretty hard. Instead, I work for free. I really enjoy coding, and it's actually been vastly freeing, having my own schedule and structure.

derwiki 3y ago
Could you say more about how you were frozen out? (or link to it if you've already written about it) Thanks in advance!
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  Well, it's kind of a well-worn whine, with me. If you browse through my history, you'll see me mention it, from time to time. TL;DR: I worked four jobs, in my career, with the last one being 27 years (25 of them as a manager, as well as tech). That was at a pretty highfalutin joint (a famous Japanese imaging company). I finally got laid off, at 55, and started looking for work, and found the culture had changed drastically (I actually had done fairly well at keeping up with the tech, as that was my job). Old people like me, were very unpopular. The interview process was pretty damn humiliating. It was made clear, that, even if some company did me the huge favor of granting me a job, I would be treated like crap. It was personal. People didn't like me, because of my age. In a couple of cases, they didn't bother hiding it, at all. I decided "Bugger this for a lark," and retired early. I had the means, but hadn't been planning on it, for at least another decade. As it has turned out, it was a blessing in disguise. Being able to do my own designs, process, and releasing, has been a joy. I've had to keep the scope humble, but it's really been great. I'm working with a nonprofit startup, where I'm actually helping a few younger folks to learn the ins and outs of what it takes to ship software. I like working. I would have been happy to work for a great deal less than most folks, was willing to take risks on startups (as I was already set, anyway), had thirty years' experience shipping, would have been loyal, honorable, and had a fairly vast array of skills and experience, but, you know...eewww...gray hair...
  - 3y ago

cdkmoose 3y ago

I'll be a 60 year old software engineer next year(class of '87), my brother just retired as a 60 year old engineer(class of '85). We exist but the educational/career pathways at that time were very limited.

mech422 3y ago

I've been programming professionally for 45 years now (55 atm). Started writing invoicing systems on heathkits and database systems for real estate on C-64..then Cobol/PL1,C,Perl,Python.. oh - and I don't have any degree at all. I'm quite optimistic I'll be able to work another 5+ years, if I choose to..

Taniwha 3y ago

I'm turning 65 in a couple of months, been making a living doing this stuff for money since I was in college - started programming 53 years ago (using cards) - in '84 I moved to the US I think most of the people I worked with then are working now