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The first half of the 20th century was a pretty dire time for democracy, I'd say. This is when communism and fascism took off. To be fair, some of that was a re

The first half of the 20th century was a pretty dire time for democracy, I'd say. This is when communism and fascism took off. To be fair, some of that was a response to monarchy/oligarchy and imperialism, but as an example the Weimar Republic in Germany was democratic and it got steamrolled by the Nazis.

bee_rider 4y ago
The Weimar Republic didn’t get steamrolled by Nazis, it failed politically, right? It turns out fascist propaganda is unfortunately attractive to some folks. The real steamrolling happened a couple years later, and it went the other way—it turns out fascist propaganda does not magic up a factory that can produce a bomber an hour.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  A steamroller is a large machine that flattens everything in its path. The republic was steamrolled by Hitler. But he's hardly the first authoritarian in history to steamroll an elected body.
- readthenotes1 4y ago
  Would you have accepted "the Weimar Republic was burned down by the Nazis" as a more literal metaphor? By the way, as a natural born quibbler, I upvoted your post.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    How about usurped? If we want to involve fire, I’m not sure… freer, more open societies seem to result in better productivity. Maybe there’s some analogy about burning a workshop to have a big bonfire.
    - readthenotes1 4y ago
      Hitler started it by burning down their parliament building and then taking over to quell the lawlessness
shadowgovt 4y ago
The Weimar republic had a pretty hefty Achilles Heel built into its democracy: because Bismarck didn't necessarily trust the will of the people completely, the government he structured ended up giving Chancellor far more power than, in hindsight, was correct to preserve a democratic system. The system basically had an "In case of populism, break glass" feature built in and the nazis figured out how to pick up the hammer. Not to imply they didn't enjoy some popular support from the German people prior, but once they had Hitler clicked in and able to dissolve the Reichstag, that support was irrelevant.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  Traditionally speaking though, this "in case of populism, enshrine an emperor/king/caesar/dictator" has always been true. The Romans experienced this with Julius. The French relapsed several times after their 1789 Revolution and dawdled between democracy and Napoleonic imperialism and dynastic monarchy. The British, too, have a colorful history of monarchs vs Parliament. And to this day refuse to sweep away the institution altogether for some indescribable reason, perhaps as a fallback in case this whole democracy thing doesn't work out. The U.S. isn't an old nation, but it's the oldest continuous democracy. It was meticulously designed to avoid such issues, but I wouldn't say it's immune either.

bee_rider 4y ago

The Weimar Republic didn’t get steamrolled by Nazis, it failed politically, right? It turns out fascist propaganda is unfortunately attractive to some folks. The real steamrolling happened a couple years later, and it went the other way—it turns out fascist propaganda does not magic up a factory that can produce a bomber an hour.

chrisco255 4y ago
A steamroller is a large machine that flattens everything in its path. The republic was steamrolled by Hitler. But he's hardly the first authoritarian in history to steamroll an elected body.
readthenotes1 4y ago
Would you have accepted "the Weimar Republic was burned down by the Nazis" as a more literal metaphor? By the way, as a natural born quibbler, I upvoted your post.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  How about usurped? If we want to involve fire, I’m not sure… freer, more open societies seem to result in better productivity. Maybe there’s some analogy about burning a workshop to have a big bonfire.
  - readthenotes1 4y ago
    Hitler started it by burning down their parliament building and then taking over to quell the lawlessness

shadowgovt 4y ago

The Weimar republic had a pretty hefty Achilles Heel built into its democracy: because Bismarck didn't necessarily trust the will of the people completely, the government he structured ended up giving Chancellor far more power than, in hindsight, was correct to preserve a democratic system. The system basically had an "In case of populism, break glass" feature built in and the nazis figured out how to pick up the hammer. Not to imply they didn't enjoy some popular support from the German people prior, but once they had Hitler clicked in and able to dissolve the Reichstag, that support was irrelevant.

chrisco255 4y ago
Traditionally speaking though, this "in case of populism, enshrine an emperor/king/caesar/dictator" has always been true. The Romans experienced this with Julius. The French relapsed several times after their 1789 Revolution and dawdled between democracy and Napoleonic imperialism and dynastic monarchy. The British, too, have a colorful history of monarchs vs Parliament. And to this day refuse to sweep away the institution altogether for some indescribable reason, perhaps as a fallback in case this whole democracy thing doesn't work out. The U.S. isn't an old nation, but it's the oldest continuous democracy. It was meticulously designed to avoid such issues, but I wouldn't say it's immune either.