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>Ops talent has really dumbed down over the last decade or so Counterpoint, the ops required for your own infrastructure has greatly dumbed down. It might sur

>Ops talent has really dumbed down over the last decade or so Counterpoint, the ops required for your own infrastructure has greatly dumbed down. It might surprise you, but OEM hardware solution have greatly evolved and simplified the same. Now I can setup a core switch running 100 GBs with failovers by just plugging in some cables between them, setting a flag and they immediately start replicating config between themselves. >Even for good ops people, it can be very hard to capacity-plan and understand what appropriate/affordable/useful hardware is. Most ops folks today have probably never purchased servers for production deployments. I'll shock you once again, the same way AWS has sales and support departments that help spoonfeed what you need. So do the hardware OEMs. I can get complete solution walkthroughs with Dell for example.

0zemp1c 4y ago
> Now I can setup a core switch running 100 GBs with failovers by just plugging in some cables no ops person I have worked with in the last ten years knows what a switch is, and this is over many companies both startup and bigtech no different for storage, compute...the experience and aptitude gap at most companies, even tech companies, is profound ops has become devops, netops is no longer in their skillset
- 10000truths 4y ago
  I find this difficult to accept... none of your coworkers ever built their own PC? Set up their own home network?
  - hhhrmmm322 4y ago
    It's believable for the kinds of organizations that the poster clearly works for.
- JoBrad 4y ago
  You missed a few "damn Millennials" in those comments. Anecdotally, your comments do not line up with my experience at all. Not only is our Sr SysAdmin providing sage wisdom and networking guidance to our DevOps team, but several of our Jr guys are taking the time to learn networking specifically (certs and all). In fact, we'll have a few new Juniper specialists in 6 months or so.
- hhhrmmm322 4y ago
  You are obviously having enormous difficulty attracting good ops and infra programmers, but that's mostly going to be due to the obvious lack of respect and probably abysmal pay you are offering. I would run away from an interview at a company you work for as fast as I possibly could just based on what you've said so far. And if I worked for you I'd quit. Case in point, you seem completely incapable of understanding how your own lack of expertise and awful pay has driven all the experienced infra people to work for cloud vendors where they can get paid what they deserve and not have to grovel before a bunch of shitty javascript devs or equivalent. Orgs like yours are trying to hire infra people the way you would hire a web developer. That isn't viable now and has never been viable. Infra roles are (or at least should be for any functional organization) more senior than product roles.

0zemp1c 4y ago

> Now I can setup a core switch running 100 GBs with failovers by just plugging in some cables no ops person I have worked with in the last ten years knows what a switch is, and this is over many companies both startup and bigtech no different for storage, compute...the experience and aptitude gap at most companies, even tech companies, is profound ops has become devops, netops is no longer in their skillset

10000truths 4y ago
I find this difficult to accept... none of your coworkers ever built their own PC? Set up their own home network?
- hhhrmmm322 4y ago
  It's believable for the kinds of organizations that the poster clearly works for.
JoBrad 4y ago
You missed a few "damn Millennials" in those comments. Anecdotally, your comments do not line up with my experience at all. Not only is our Sr SysAdmin providing sage wisdom and networking guidance to our DevOps team, but several of our Jr guys are taking the time to learn networking specifically (certs and all). In fact, we'll have a few new Juniper specialists in 6 months or so.
hhhrmmm322 4y ago
You are obviously having enormous difficulty attracting good ops and infra programmers, but that's mostly going to be due to the obvious lack of respect and probably abysmal pay you are offering. I would run away from an interview at a company you work for as fast as I possibly could just based on what you've said so far. And if I worked for you I'd quit. Case in point, you seem completely incapable of understanding how your own lack of expertise and awful pay has driven all the experienced infra people to work for cloud vendors where they can get paid what they deserve and not have to grovel before a bunch of shitty javascript devs or equivalent. Orgs like yours are trying to hire infra people the way you would hire a web developer. That isn't viable now and has never been viable. Infra roles are (or at least should be for any functional organization) more senior than product roles.