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> An alt-store stands to capture more value on iOS than Android, and spying on iOS users is probably a whole lot more lucrative than spying on Android users. H

> An alt-store stands to capture more value on iOS than Android, and spying on iOS users is probably a whole lot more lucrative than spying on Android users. How so? I think American Apple users just don’t realise how insignificant Apple market share is outside the US. Android was open from the start. Giant like Amazon tried to kickstart alt stores. What did happen? Nothing. I think people should stop drinking Apple fear mongering. It’s just aggressive lobbying to protect their cash cow.

yamtaddle 4y ago
> > An alt-store stands to capture more value on iOS than Android, and spying on iOS users is probably a whole lot more lucrative than spying on Android users. > How so? What... part of this remains unclear? It's the same incentives that drive iOS-first development choices, with the added wrinkle that the App Store restricts the potential of certain monetization schemes (spying on users) more than the Play Store does. All that means the incentives to distribute apps outside the App Store, or to launch an alt-store, are stronger than on Android. > I think American Apple users just don’t realise how insignificant Apple market share is outside the US. I do realize. I think you may be overestimating how much all those Android users spend, and how much their eyeballs (and personal data) are worth to advertisers, compared with iOS users. > Android was open from the start. Giant like Amazon tried to kick start all stores. What did happen? Nothing. My entire point is that there are enough differences between the two that we can't assume they'll behave the same.
- pantalaimon 4y ago
  Obviously the implication is that only plebs are using Android and affluent people are on iOS
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Income demographics are almost certainly part of it, sure. I expect iOS also makes users feel safer or more comfortable spending money than Android does, and that the average iOS device in the wild is generally more pleasant to use than the average Android device. There could also be age-related demographic factors contributing (that is, Android users may skew older, and older people might spend less on software, and may tend to use their devices far less than younger smartphone owners—this is just a guess, though) Whatever the reasons, iOS device owners use their devices a lot more, and spend a lot more money through them, than Android users, on average.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      > use their devices a lot more, and spend a lot more money through them Dark patterns are the same, by any other name. I left MacOS because the squeeze got too rough, and didn't even consider iOS for daily use since it's file syncing options are a clown show. If Apple has reached this market position through unfair or anticompetitive means, I don't see why or how it would stop regulators from ruling in favor of competition.
      - yamtaddle 4y ago
        I doubt you're right that Apple's more-strongly leveraging dark patterns (... do they?) is the reason iOS users use their devices more, and spend more money on them. There probably are several things that all contribute, but I doubt that particular one ranks in the top-10, assuming the effect even goes that direction at all, and I'd certainly not bet that it does. I mean, hell, Apple goes out of their way to let you know how much you're using the device and where you're spending (or wasting) your time. And they make managing e.g. subscriptions dead easy. Sure seems counterproductive if the secret of their success is dark patterns tricking us into spending more time on the devices, and spending more money.
arcticbull 4y ago
- 27.71% worldwide is iOS. - 56% in the US. - 34% in Europe. - 18% in Asia. - 13% in South America. [2] That all in mind Apple has 85% of the global share of smartphone profits. [1] Many Android players have a negative profit share. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-03/iphone-grabs-record-smartphone-profit-share-of-85-for-apple#xj4y7vzkg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-03/iphone-gr... [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/ https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/
- trarmp 4y ago
  Those are numbers for smartphone sales, not the software on them. Hardware sales can be negative, sometimes even intended. Just look at console vendors for that.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    That can't make the numbers look better, after all, Apple gets 30% of App Store sales, while Google takes the cut of Android apps sold through the Play store. And that gets even worse when you see Apple gets 67% of all app revenues too. [1] [1] https://www.businessofapps.com/data/app-revenues/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/app-revenues/
    - trarmp 4y ago
      Then just say that in the first place. I don't disagree that Apple users are much more likely to pay for software than Android users, but you don't need hardware sales to make that point.
      - arcticbull 4y ago
        I can see it your way. Point taken.
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    Are you arguing that the average Android user spends more on apps than their phone is worth? Anecdotally, most people I know might spend $20/year on App Store purchases (excluding streaming services if they don’t have a desktop computer). I’ve made well over six figures for a few years and have never spent more than $100 in a year, the vast majority of those purchases for one off games/apps, not iap coins/tokens/etc.

yamtaddle 4y ago

> > An alt-store stands to capture more value on iOS than Android, and spying on iOS users is probably a whole lot more lucrative than spying on Android users. > How so? What... part of this remains unclear? It's the same incentives that drive iOS-first development choices, with the added wrinkle that the App Store restricts the potential of certain monetization schemes (spying on users) more than the Play Store does. All that means the incentives to distribute apps outside the App Store, or to launch an alt-store, are stronger than on Android. > I think American Apple users just don’t realise how insignificant Apple market share is outside the US. I do realize. I think you may be overestimating how much all those Android users spend, and how much their eyeballs (and personal data) are worth to advertisers, compared with iOS users. > Android was open from the start. Giant like Amazon tried to kick start all stores. What did happen? Nothing. My entire point is that there are enough differences between the two that we can't assume they'll behave the same.

pantalaimon 4y ago
Obviously the implication is that only plebs are using Android and affluent people are on iOS
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Income demographics are almost certainly part of it, sure. I expect iOS also makes users feel safer or more comfortable spending money than Android does, and that the average iOS device in the wild is generally more pleasant to use than the average Android device. There could also be age-related demographic factors contributing (that is, Android users may skew older, and older people might spend less on software, and may tend to use their devices far less than younger smartphone owners—this is just a guess, though) Whatever the reasons, iOS device owners use their devices a lot more, and spend a lot more money through them, than Android users, on average.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > use their devices a lot more, and spend a lot more money through them Dark patterns are the same, by any other name. I left MacOS because the squeeze got too rough, and didn't even consider iOS for daily use since it's file syncing options are a clown show. If Apple has reached this market position through unfair or anticompetitive means, I don't see why or how it would stop regulators from ruling in favor of competition.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      I doubt you're right that Apple's more-strongly leveraging dark patterns (... do they?) is the reason iOS users use their devices more, and spend more money on them. There probably are several things that all contribute, but I doubt that particular one ranks in the top-10, assuming the effect even goes that direction at all, and I'd certainly not bet that it does. I mean, hell, Apple goes out of their way to let you know how much you're using the device and where you're spending (or wasting) your time. And they make managing e.g. subscriptions dead easy. Sure seems counterproductive if the secret of their success is dark patterns tricking us into spending more time on the devices, and spending more money.

arcticbull 4y ago

- 27.71% worldwide is iOS. - 56% in the US. - 34% in Europe. - 18% in Asia. - 13% in South America. [2] That all in mind Apple has 85% of the global share of smartphone profits. [1] Many Android players have a negative profit share. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-03/iphone-grabs-record-smartphone-profit-share-of-85-for-apple#xj4y7vzkg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-03/iphone-gr... [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/ https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/

trarmp 4y ago
Those are numbers for smartphone sales, not the software on them. Hardware sales can be negative, sometimes even intended. Just look at console vendors for that.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  That can't make the numbers look better, after all, Apple gets 30% of App Store sales, while Google takes the cut of Android apps sold through the Play store. And that gets even worse when you see Apple gets 67% of all app revenues too. [1] [1] https://www.businessofapps.com/data/app-revenues/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/app-revenues/
  - trarmp 4y ago
    Then just say that in the first place. I don't disagree that Apple users are much more likely to pay for software than Android users, but you don't need hardware sales to make that point.
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      I can see it your way. Point taken.
- yurishimo 4y ago
  Are you arguing that the average Android user spends more on apps than their phone is worth? Anecdotally, most people I know might spend $20/year on App Store purchases (excluding streaming services if they don’t have a desktop computer). I’ve made well over six figures for a few years and have never spent more than $100 in a year, the vast majority of those purchases for one off games/apps, not iap coins/tokens/etc.