6 ms·
It's interesting because I was going to argue with you until I applied the same idea to a subject I couldn't care less about if I tried in school, but now think
by deanCommie 3y ago
It's interesting because I was going to argue with you until I applied the same idea to a subject I couldn't care less about if I tried in school, but now think is deeply fascinating: History.
See, I loved math. So all through Calculus I could easily remember the big picture. Every time I practiced an Integral I imagined curves and calculating the areas under them and the visual problem and the relevance of what the curve represented in real life and the massive amount of applications it could be used for in the real world lit up my neurons like fireworks in the sky.
(Then I went into computer science, and wound up never needing calclus again, based on the type of work I happen to be doing, but alas)
But where I really would have wished a constant reinforcement of the "big picture" is History. Cuz it always seemed so pointless and useless. Why are we studying these old dead people, and everything they did. Who cares? They're old, and they're dead, and nothing they did matters to us anymore.
Until you grow up, and go from your 20s to your 40s, and suddenly realize oh shit we're living THROUGH history. We're creating history NOW. We're making choices, and we're making mistakes just like those old dead people in history. Old dead people that weren't really any less developed or evolved primates than us. Just equally victims of their circumstance like us, and also agents of change like us.
Suddenly history seems much more significant.
- postsantum 3y agoFunny enough, I ended up with the opposing view - history doesn't matter, narratives do. During the last year I learned about propaganda, psy ops and myths much more than I knew before. And at the risk of sounding as an edgy teenager, I can vouch for the phrase "History is written by victors" which stopped being a platitude for me and became a part of my worldview
- BeFlatXIII 3y agoI prefer the existentialist "history is written by those who write history." Often, the victors give themselves a better justification for their conquest than admitting that someone bigger and badder may eventually dethrone them. However, some losers write histories praising their new overlords and their incredible military might, not out to gain favor with the new king but to preserve the dignity of the old king. The defeat was inevitable because of the invader's futuristic military powers aided by the Gods (instead of admitting the old king had no strategy).
- Paul-Craft 3y agoIn the words of Norm McDonald, "It says here in this history book that luckily, the good guys have won every time. What are the odds?"
- deanCommie 3y agoFunny enough, the very premise of "good guys" existing is proof of the concept we're discussing. Except it's not funny because then it leads to people both-sidesing genocide and actual nazis because the allies also committed war crimes. History is a mess because humanity is a mess. But we like to think that we aren't. Probably as a defense mechanism.
- deanCommie 3y agoYou're not wrong but what's the difference between history and narratives? "History" is the study of different narratives to TRY to come to a semblance of truth, but even for recent events this is almost impossible. Pick an example like "Did the US dropping the nuclear bomb on Japan ultimately save lives, or was it unnecessary" and it's impossible to find the truth between 2 conflicting narratives, each fairly justifiable. Another one is, most Soviet Anti-American Propaganda was true.
- postsantum 3y agoThe real history is often a horrible mess, narratives are built by carefully cherrypicking facts to support a worldview. This is similar to what happens to mass media - they don't need to lie, just present only those facts that support their position
- UncleMeat 3y agoI think you are mistaking historical memory for history here.
- UncleMeat 3y agoFrankly, this is spoken like somebody without a history education. Not only would "narratives matter" be an uncontroversial statement among historians, they'd tell you that all historical writing is narrative construction. And they'd hand you a book on historiography and teach you about the methods that historians use to understand an honestly present narratives in their writing. Note that this does not mean that historical writing is bullshit. A lot of engineers seem to come up against these observations in the humanities and then just assume that nothing can be done and that entire fields must be discarded while the people working in those fields have been living with this stuff for their entire careers.
- andrewflnr 3y agoI think history is potentially even easier. Everyone asks "why?" about things being the way they are, or can be interested in it if you remind them that things could be otherwise. History is the answer to "why?" for a huge number of things with both small and huge life and death consequences. Put another way, "why" is a good framing for a lot of big picture history stuff.