7 ms·

Ugh just stop. This is a fad and it's not well enough tested for it to be getting pushed out this quickly. I don't want AI in every facet of my life, we're givi

Ugh just stop. This is a fad and it's not well enough tested for it to be getting pushed out this quickly. I don't want AI in every facet of my life, we're giving up too much control too quickly.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
iamerroragent 4y ago
How else are they supposed to test without a large number of people using it? How is DuckDuckGo supposed to compete without? How is this not an improvement to search? (presumably whilst still respecting people's privacy)
- throwawa14223 4y ago
  Why would you consider a result set that contained AI results useful or legitimate? LLM sure looks to be the end stage of the enshitification of the internet.
  - ForHackernews 4y ago
    > LLM sure looks to be the end stage of the enshitification of the internet. The web is not the internet. Join us! https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ https://gemini.circumlunar.space/
  - iamerroragent 4y ago
    Well if it is learning from my search habits and its results reflect more accurately what I wanted compared to traditional search then I would say that's useful. Not to mention the niceness of more natural language you can use to query.
- DrThunder 4y ago
  You're handing the work of sifting through data and determining reliable resources off to an artificial middle man. That's a whole lot of trust you have there. It's only an improvement if you assume that intelligence is very good at what it does and/or has your best interests in mind.
  - iamerroragent 4y ago
    How so? Search already does that (sifting through data and giving me its best results) so you're already trusting a middle man here. If AI can get me results that I can tell are better than older search algorithms results then that's a win. Either way I'm still having to verify sources.
    - DrThunder 4y ago
      Maybe... that's assuming it's telling you where it's sourcing all that info and you can go prove that it's reliable. Chat-GPT doesn't do that from what I've seen. How will you tell it's better???
      - iamerroragent 4y ago
        This is DuckDuckGo though. Here it's apparently just bringing you the relevant information from a Wikipedia page and showing you that. Personally this a great feature for me. In my mind, AI for search is one where there's an attempt to answer (with source to back that answer) and also provide an efficient list of relevant links to other sites that it believes is related or part of what I was searching for. There's nothing really 'hidden' more so than before in my opinion. The test for AI is will users find results better and faster than before. Which so far seems to be yes as far as I am aware. However I understand where you are coming from with the Chat-GPT interface just spitting out a result and completely obviscating where it came from.
        DrThunder 4y ago
        Yes, but it's sifting through data in the background and making the decision for you whether you ought to be able to see certain things. Traditional search engine do that sort of but not to the extent AI does. AI will make the decision for you on whether something meets the criteria of being a "good source".
        iamerroragent 4y ago
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > How is this not an improvement to search? Depends on what you want from searching, I think. If what you want is a list of links to other sites talking about what you're looking for, ChatGPT makes searching worse, in my opinion.
hellcow 4y ago
This weekend I used ChatGPT to: 1. Help select a data structure for a very specific use-case given certain constraints, generate a first pass of the code, and help debug it. 2. Recommend a recipe for the exact set of ingredients I had on hand. (It was for muffins, and they were delicious) 3. Diagnose and fix an issue on my stovetop that’s plagued me for months. In some of these cases it dramatically reduced the time I would have spent searching/researching from hours to a minute. Search is great for some use-cases and not great for others. I’m glad DDG is supporting more use-cases with an eye toward privacy.
- ysavir 4y ago
  I'm glad that it's helped you, but there's a big difference between an individual proactively using AI and a service forcing it on its users.
  - hellcow 4y ago
    I guess I don’t understand why you feel they’re “forcing it on users.” Just don’t look at the results it generates or use ublock origin to filter the AI response off the page?
    - ysavir 4y ago
      I don't think it's so much about DDG specifically but of all the services now rushing to introduce AI into their flow.
- account-5 4y ago
  On the flip side I tried to get chatgpt to help me generate a pandoc metadata.yaml file to convert a bunch of markdown files into a single docx file. I tried to keep it simple to start with so I could incrementally build it up so started with wanting double line spacing and the content of each markdown fike to start on a different page. I gave up in the end and had to do the research myself as chatgpt was massively hallucinating and throwing random stuff in I didn't even ask for.
ForHackernews 4y ago
(Edit: This was in response to a deleted comment that claimed nobody would be forced to use LLMs) > Websites that we can stop using any time we want This is naive. Soon (within the next 5-10 years) it will not be possible to contact any large consumer companies for support without "speaking" to an AI bot first. Next, banking and financial services will replace their customer-facing roles. Finally, frontline government and medical service will be automated. I don't think it's hyperbolic to predict that within the next 15 years, it will not be possible for you to get help with your cable bill, your airline tickets, your credit card, your driver's license, or your knee injury without interacting with some kind of AI support agent. Maybe you will be able to beg for a human the same way you can mash 0 on the keypad today, but the wait times will be long. Who knows? Maybe the AI bots will be great and this will be a newly utopian era. But you will not get a choice, and you will not be able to "stop using" any of these AI system.
- throwawa14223 4y ago
  I doubt it was chatGPT but this happened to me the past weekend. It took me 6 hours on the phone with Comcast to get a simple billing error fixed because their system kept 'selecting me' to try out their new automated support system.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    In all fairness, Comcast is the worst. I don't think their customer support will ever be anything but nightmarish regardless of whether or not they use automated "agents".
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > your cable bill, your airline tickets, your credit card, your driver's license, or your knee injury without interacting with some kind of AI support agent. For all of those things except the credit card, I can physically go to an office and talk to a real human being. I doubt that will stop being possible in the next couple of decades. I hope, anyway, because that's my fallback plan.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
JohnFen 4y ago
It sounds like DDG will make this something you have to click on a special button to get. That means it's easy to ignore. That's a good thing because I have negative interest in using AI for web searching.

Ugh just stop. This is a fad and it's not well enough tested for it to be getting pushed out this quickly. I don't want AI in every facet of my life, we're giving up too much control too quickly.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

iamerroragent 4y ago

How else are they supposed to test without a large number of people using it? How is DuckDuckGo supposed to compete without? How is this not an improvement to search? (presumably whilst still respecting people's privacy)

throwawa14223 4y ago
Why would you consider a result set that contained AI results useful or legitimate? LLM sure looks to be the end stage of the enshitification of the internet.
- ForHackernews 4y ago
  > LLM sure looks to be the end stage of the enshitification of the internet. The web is not the internet. Join us! https://gemini.circumlunar.space/ https://gemini.circumlunar.space/
- iamerroragent 4y ago
  Well if it is learning from my search habits and its results reflect more accurately what I wanted compared to traditional search then I would say that's useful. Not to mention the niceness of more natural language you can use to query.
DrThunder 4y ago
You're handing the work of sifting through data and determining reliable resources off to an artificial middle man. That's a whole lot of trust you have there. It's only an improvement if you assume that intelligence is very good at what it does and/or has your best interests in mind.
- iamerroragent 4y ago
  How so? Search already does that (sifting through data and giving me its best results) so you're already trusting a middle man here. If AI can get me results that I can tell are better than older search algorithms results then that's a win. Either way I'm still having to verify sources.
  - DrThunder 4y ago
    Maybe... that's assuming it's telling you where it's sourcing all that info and you can go prove that it's reliable. Chat-GPT doesn't do that from what I've seen. How will you tell it's better???
    - iamerroragent 4y ago
      This is DuckDuckGo though. Here it's apparently just bringing you the relevant information from a Wikipedia page and showing you that. Personally this a great feature for me. In my mind, AI for search is one where there's an attempt to answer (with source to back that answer) and also provide an efficient list of relevant links to other sites that it believes is related or part of what I was searching for. There's nothing really 'hidden' more so than before in my opinion. The test for AI is will users find results better and faster than before. Which so far seems to be yes as far as I am aware. However I understand where you are coming from with the Chat-GPT interface just spitting out a result and completely obviscating where it came from.
      - DrThunder 4y ago
        Yes, but it's sifting through data in the background and making the decision for you whether you ought to be able to see certain things. Traditional search engine do that sort of but not to the extent AI does. AI will make the decision for you on whether something meets the criteria of being a "good source".
        iamerroragent 4y ago
JohnFen 4y ago
> How is this not an improvement to search? Depends on what you want from searching, I think. If what you want is a list of links to other sites talking about what you're looking for, ChatGPT makes searching worse, in my opinion.

hellcow 4y ago

This weekend I used ChatGPT to: 1. Help select a data structure for a very specific use-case given certain constraints, generate a first pass of the code, and help debug it. 2. Recommend a recipe for the exact set of ingredients I had on hand. (It was for muffins, and they were delicious) 3. Diagnose and fix an issue on my stovetop that’s plagued me for months. In some of these cases it dramatically reduced the time I would have spent searching/researching from hours to a minute. Search is great for some use-cases and not great for others. I’m glad DDG is supporting more use-cases with an eye toward privacy.

ysavir 4y ago
I'm glad that it's helped you, but there's a big difference between an individual proactively using AI and a service forcing it on its users.
- hellcow 4y ago
  I guess I don’t understand why you feel they’re “forcing it on users.” Just don’t look at the results it generates or use ublock origin to filter the AI response off the page?
  - ysavir 4y ago
    I don't think it's so much about DDG specifically but of all the services now rushing to introduce AI into their flow.
account-5 4y ago
On the flip side I tried to get chatgpt to help me generate a pandoc metadata.yaml file to convert a bunch of markdown files into a single docx file. I tried to keep it simple to start with so I could incrementally build it up so started with wanting double line spacing and the content of each markdown fike to start on a different page. I gave up in the end and had to do the research myself as chatgpt was massively hallucinating and throwing random stuff in I didn't even ask for.

ForHackernews 4y ago

(Edit: This was in response to a deleted comment that claimed nobody would be forced to use LLMs) > Websites that we can stop using any time we want This is naive. Soon (within the next 5-10 years) it will not be possible to contact any large consumer companies for support without "speaking" to an AI bot first. Next, banking and financial services will replace their customer-facing roles. Finally, frontline government and medical service will be automated. I don't think it's hyperbolic to predict that within the next 15 years, it will not be possible for you to get help with your cable bill, your airline tickets, your credit card, your driver's license, or your knee injury without interacting with some kind of AI support agent. Maybe you will be able to beg for a human the same way you can mash 0 on the keypad today, but the wait times will be long. Who knows? Maybe the AI bots will be great and this will be a newly utopian era. But you will not get a choice, and you will not be able to "stop using" any of these AI system.

throwawa14223 4y ago
I doubt it was chatGPT but this happened to me the past weekend. It took me 6 hours on the phone with Comcast to get a simple billing error fixed because their system kept 'selecting me' to try out their new automated support system.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  In all fairness, Comcast is the worst. I don't think their customer support will ever be anything but nightmarish regardless of whether or not they use automated "agents".
JohnFen 4y ago
> your cable bill, your airline tickets, your credit card, your driver's license, or your knee injury without interacting with some kind of AI support agent. For all of those things except the credit card, I can physically go to an office and talk to a real human being. I doubt that will stop being possible in the next couple of decades. I hope, anyway, because that's my fallback plan.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

JohnFen 4y ago

It sounds like DDG will make this something you have to click on a special button to get. That means it's easy to ignore. That's a good thing because I have negative interest in using AI for web searching.