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>explaining that she knew their daughter couldn't see her father for yet another night in a row, but just wanted to spend 15 minutes with him. Dude, reading th

>explaining that she knew their daughter couldn't see her father for yet another night in a row, but just wanted to spend 15 minutes with him. Dude, reading that just makes me want to cry. I may be an IT enterprise schmuck doing java development for the man, but at least I have a life outside of the 8-5. Man I have so much to be thankful for: a job that's 5 minutes away from where I live, pays me very well, and I can be home for lunch with my girls every day and home for dinner before 5:30. I'd love to have my own startup (hence the HN trolling) but not at the expense of my family. I guess the lifestyle-business/startup is where I'll end up eventually.

martincmartin 15y ago
The crazy thing is, I've told this story on the phone when interviewing at startups, and I've had them say "oh, we work 60 hours a week here!" At that point, I say that's a deal breaker and wish them well.
- hessenwolf 15y ago
  Yeah - I worked sixty hours per week at a start up; they got up only once in the twelve hour days for twenty minutes to get a sandwich, separately, for their desks. It's bollox, and certainly not more productive.
- crawdog 15y ago
  I can attest to that... I've kept my consulting gig instead of moving to a startup because it's 40 hours capped and a much better lifestyle. martincmartin - I'm sure the ORCL check this year didn't hurt ;)
ams6110 15y ago
Frankly, some of this "family time" stuff can be taken too far by fathers. What are you going to do, sit around the house reading Dr. Seuss and playing Lego? That's fine to a point, but you also need to be setting an example as a provider and you do that by spending a reasonable amount of time at work. Kids absorb and internalize their experiences as they grow, and when they are adults (past the turbulence of adolescence) those internalized behaviors are how they live. If they have not had the experience of growing up with a parent who displays the discipline to sacrifice, work hard, and succeed, they won't tend to have that either. This is NOT a critique of Atwood's (or anyone else's) decision specifically; he has clearly been a success and maybe the work/home ratio in his life was out of balance. Like many good things, time spent at work can become a negative. But on the whole I don't think a parent, particularly a father, needs to feel guilty about spending a reasonable amount of time at work. You are teaching your kids how to be a provider, even if you are not physically "there" 24/7.
- mikecaron 15y ago
  I think the most important part of being a father who works is keeping strict boundaries between work and home. When I am at home, I am at home. When I am at work, I am at work. The kids know that M-F, dad's gone at 7am and home at 4:15. They know that when daddy's home, he's all theirs. We play legos, we play blocks, we build trains, we color pictures, wrestle, laugh, read books. It's all about them. This strict boundary means I rarely if ever work from home. It confuses them. Daddy's present, but can't play with me. It breaks my heart to hear "Wanna snuggle with me, Dad?" and I've got visual studio open on the computer. Fk code. I want snuggle time with my baby-girl. So I leave if I have to and head in to the office. But I'm back before the kids go to sleep to read a story. "Success" can be defined a lot of ways. My Dad reached his success by working very hard to gain enough money at the end of life to live playing golf daily in sunny Florida. He sees the kids maybe two times a year. My success will be living a full life now, surrounded by snuggling grandkids and hopefully great-grandkids when I'm old, still shoveling snow in Wisconsin winters if that's where they are.
- eliam 15y ago
  I came to this same conclusion recently. It's great to spend time with the kids but there's a lot to be said for setting an example. I changed jobs to be closer to home after my second child was born. It's been over a year now and I'm realizing that being a good father is not just about spending quality time with your kids. It's also about teaching our kids to follow their dreams and find work that they truly enjoy. What better way to teach them this? This is why I'm making an effort to change my situation ASAP.
  - mikecaron 15y ago
    Jonathan Coulton comes to mind. He left his boring job as a programmer to pursue music as a way to make a living. He does not sacrifice family time for his "dream", but provides an example of a dad doing something he enjoys to make money for the family while having fun with the family.
    - eliam 15y ago
Jgrubb 15y ago
Amen. I got into HN and programming in general with big ideas of what I wanted to build once I knew how. At this point, I'm pretty happy working as a contractor, building my skills up, and getting to cook dinner and read stories to my kids at bedtime every night. Contract programming can facilitate a cushier lifestyle than I really ever thought possible when I was a professional musician. My ideas and my abilities will some day meet, but in the meantime I'm pretty satisfied. This whole post/thread gives that a bit more perspective.

martincmartin 15y ago

The crazy thing is, I've told this story on the phone when interviewing at startups, and I've had them say "oh, we work 60 hours a week here!" At that point, I say that's a deal breaker and wish them well.

hessenwolf 15y ago
Yeah - I worked sixty hours per week at a start up; they got up only once in the twelve hour days for twenty minutes to get a sandwich, separately, for their desks. It's bollox, and certainly not more productive.
crawdog 15y ago
I can attest to that... I've kept my consulting gig instead of moving to a startup because it's 40 hours capped and a much better lifestyle. martincmartin - I'm sure the ORCL check this year didn't hurt ;)

ams6110 15y ago

Frankly, some of this "family time" stuff can be taken too far by fathers. What are you going to do, sit around the house reading Dr. Seuss and playing Lego? That's fine to a point, but you also need to be setting an example as a provider and you do that by spending a reasonable amount of time at work. Kids absorb and internalize their experiences as they grow, and when they are adults (past the turbulence of adolescence) those internalized behaviors are how they live. If they have not had the experience of growing up with a parent who displays the discipline to sacrifice, work hard, and succeed, they won't tend to have that either. This is NOT a critique of Atwood's (or anyone else's) decision specifically; he has clearly been a success and maybe the work/home ratio in his life was out of balance. Like many good things, time spent at work can become a negative. But on the whole I don't think a parent, particularly a father, needs to feel guilty about spending a reasonable amount of time at work. You are teaching your kids how to be a provider, even if you are not physically "there" 24/7.

mikecaron 15y ago
I think the most important part of being a father who works is keeping strict boundaries between work and home. When I am at home, I am at home. When I am at work, I am at work. The kids know that M-F, dad's gone at 7am and home at 4:15. They know that when daddy's home, he's all theirs. We play legos, we play blocks, we build trains, we color pictures, wrestle, laugh, read books. It's all about them. This strict boundary means I rarely if ever work from home. It confuses them. Daddy's present, but can't play with me. It breaks my heart to hear "Wanna snuggle with me, Dad?" and I've got visual studio open on the computer. Fk code. I want snuggle time with my baby-girl. So I leave if I have to and head in to the office. But I'm back before the kids go to sleep to read a story. "Success" can be defined a lot of ways. My Dad reached his success by working very hard to gain enough money at the end of life to live playing golf daily in sunny Florida. He sees the kids maybe two times a year. My success will be living a full life now, surrounded by snuggling grandkids and hopefully great-grandkids when I'm old, still shoveling snow in Wisconsin winters if that's where they are.
eliam 15y ago
I came to this same conclusion recently. It's great to spend time with the kids but there's a lot to be said for setting an example. I changed jobs to be closer to home after my second child was born. It's been over a year now and I'm realizing that being a good father is not just about spending quality time with your kids. It's also about teaching our kids to follow their dreams and find work that they truly enjoy. What better way to teach them this? This is why I'm making an effort to change my situation ASAP.
- mikecaron 15y ago
  Jonathan Coulton comes to mind. He left his boring job as a programmer to pursue music as a way to make a living. He does not sacrifice family time for his "dream", but provides an example of a dad doing something he enjoys to make money for the family while having fun with the family.
  - eliam 15y ago

Jgrubb 15y ago

Amen. I got into HN and programming in general with big ideas of what I wanted to build once I knew how. At this point, I'm pretty happy working as a contractor, building my skills up, and getting to cook dinner and read stories to my kids at bedtime every night. Contract programming can facilitate a cushier lifestyle than I really ever thought possible when I was a professional musician. My ideas and my abilities will some day meet, but in the meantime I'm pretty satisfied. This whole post/thread gives that a bit more perspective.