4 ms·

Meta is collecting data from people using its products to create targeting-models for advertisement. An Advertiser can then buy ads targeting a specific audienc

Meta is collecting data from people using its products to create targeting-models for advertisement. An Advertiser can then buy ads targeting a specific audience. Companies really want the individual user-information to cut out Meta, but Meta is not sharing it to the advertiser, they have to go through Meta to reach their audience based on Personas they curate. Now Apple owns the underlying Hardware and tracks usage of every single application and service on top. How exactly is Apple expected to operate their advertising business if NOT with the very same method as Meta/Google (creating personas, selling them for ads)?

GeekyBear 4y ago
> Meta is collecting data from people using its products to create targeting-models for advertisement. Meta has been creating shadow profiles of people who don't even use their products for over a decade now. https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/11/17225482/facebook-shadow-profiles-zuckerberg-congress-data-privacy https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/11/17225482/facebook-shadow-... Google, literally, buys a copy of everyone's credit/debit card transaction data so they can spy on your bank account and not just your online activities. https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/05/25/242717/google-now-tracks-your-credit-card-purchases-and-connects-them-to-its-online-profile-of-you/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/05/25/242717/google-no... You can sell ads without constantly spying on everyone. Glossy Magazines, Newspapers, Radio, and Television managed to do so for many decades.
- rickdeckard 4y ago
  Glossy Magazines sell Ads to people interested in those glossy magazines. The Magazine-content defines its target-group. This doesn't work for platform-based advertising, the platform needs to offer ways to select the target-group to address. Google purchased transaction data to connect online behavior to the real world and refine their Persona profile. Apple doesn't need to do this, because they already collect data from their users' behavior in the real world via their Apple Pay / Apple Card purchases. In 2017 Google didn't know whether you actually have money to buy a new TV, they only saw that you kept looking at TVs online. So they thought it's a good idea to buy this data to refine their Ad Personas. In 2023, Apple already owns sufficient data to know if you can afford a TV or not. They curate your persona from your Apple ID and your Apple Pay transactions and even know whether you went to BestBuy recently. Putting you in a matching advertising cluster for that isn't a legal privacy violation, your private data will never be shared with anyone. Just like Google and Meta don't share your private data with anyone. I don't like any of those practices, but let's not buy into the illusion that Apple is doing anything different to Meta/Google. They all create and refine Personas to allow targeted marketing, and protect the underlying data to be the gatekeeper.
  - GeekyBear 4y ago
    > Glossy Magazines sell Ads to people interested in those glossy magazines. It's entirely possible to sell ads based on the content of a web page, just like it's possible to sell ads based on the content of a magazine. It's just not as profitable as relentlessly spying on everyone. > Google purchased transaction data to connect online behavior to the real world and refine their Persona profile Google already has more than enough data on it's customers through their search history. They don't need to relentlessly spy on every aspect of your life, including your bank account, to turn a profit.
    - rickdeckard 4y ago
      > It's entirely possible to sell ads based on the content of a web page. Yes. But at some point i.e. Bentley wants to spend its Marketing money only on people likely to buy a Bentley. If Bentley shops for ads tomorrow, they can select Personas like "Age 40-60", "owns a car" and many others from Meta as well as Google as well as Apple. Those are the "ads relevant to you" Apple talks about in their T&C. Again, I don't like it either, but let's not buy into the illusion that Apple is not entering this exact same industry to sell their customers' attention to the highest bidder. > Google already has more than enough data on it's customers And so does Apple. Time to start a lucrative ads business.
      - GeekyBear 4y ago
        > at some point i.e. Bentley wants to spend its Marketing money only on people likely to buy a Bentley. So they can run their ads on web pages that are related to luxury goods. It's entirely possible to sell ads without relentlessly spying on everyone. It's just less profitable.
        rickdeckard 4y ago
        Hence "Yes". Lots of things are "possible", it's just not how things are. We're circling around a straw-man

GeekyBear 4y ago

> Meta is collecting data from people using its products to create targeting-models for advertisement. Meta has been creating shadow profiles of people who don't even use their products for over a decade now. https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/11/17225482/facebook-shadow-profiles-zuckerberg-congress-data-privacy https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/11/17225482/facebook-shadow-... Google, literally, buys a copy of everyone's credit/debit card transaction data so they can spy on your bank account and not just your online activities. https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/05/25/242717/google-now-tracks-your-credit-card-purchases-and-connects-them-to-its-online-profile-of-you/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/05/25/242717/google-no... You can sell ads without constantly spying on everyone. Glossy Magazines, Newspapers, Radio, and Television managed to do so for many decades.

rickdeckard 4y ago
Glossy Magazines sell Ads to people interested in those glossy magazines. The Magazine-content defines its target-group. This doesn't work for platform-based advertising, the platform needs to offer ways to select the target-group to address. Google purchased transaction data to connect online behavior to the real world and refine their Persona profile. Apple doesn't need to do this, because they already collect data from their users' behavior in the real world via their Apple Pay / Apple Card purchases. In 2017 Google didn't know whether you actually have money to buy a new TV, they only saw that you kept looking at TVs online. So they thought it's a good idea to buy this data to refine their Ad Personas. In 2023, Apple already owns sufficient data to know if you can afford a TV or not. They curate your persona from your Apple ID and your Apple Pay transactions and even know whether you went to BestBuy recently. Putting you in a matching advertising cluster for that isn't a legal privacy violation, your private data will never be shared with anyone. Just like Google and Meta don't share your private data with anyone. I don't like any of those practices, but let's not buy into the illusion that Apple is doing anything different to Meta/Google. They all create and refine Personas to allow targeted marketing, and protect the underlying data to be the gatekeeper.
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  > Glossy Magazines sell Ads to people interested in those glossy magazines. It's entirely possible to sell ads based on the content of a web page, just like it's possible to sell ads based on the content of a magazine. It's just not as profitable as relentlessly spying on everyone. > Google purchased transaction data to connect online behavior to the real world and refine their Persona profile Google already has more than enough data on it's customers through their search history. They don't need to relentlessly spy on every aspect of your life, including your bank account, to turn a profit.
  - rickdeckard 4y ago
    > It's entirely possible to sell ads based on the content of a web page. Yes. But at some point i.e. Bentley wants to spend its Marketing money only on people likely to buy a Bentley. If Bentley shops for ads tomorrow, they can select Personas like "Age 40-60", "owns a car" and many others from Meta as well as Google as well as Apple. Those are the "ads relevant to you" Apple talks about in their T&C. Again, I don't like it either, but let's not buy into the illusion that Apple is not entering this exact same industry to sell their customers' attention to the highest bidder. > Google already has more than enough data on it's customers And so does Apple. Time to start a lucrative ads business.
    - GeekyBear 4y ago
      > at some point i.e. Bentley wants to spend its Marketing money only on people likely to buy a Bentley. So they can run their ads on web pages that are related to luxury goods. It's entirely possible to sell ads without relentlessly spying on everyone. It's just less profitable.
      - rickdeckard 4y ago
        Hence "Yes". Lots of things are "possible", it's just not how things are. We're circling around a straw-man