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I understand most of the concerns by hardware manufacturers for not publishing their firmware source code, however if they did that after the product is declare

I understand most of the concerns by hardware manufacturers for not publishing their firmware source code, however if they did that after the product is declared obsolete, or at least if they would unlock bootloaders and publish enough documentation so that new firmware could be developed, that would give the community a way to recycle old hardware without them surrendering most of their precious IP.

iforgotpassword 4y ago
Yes, unlocking bootloaders the moment you stop shipping updates would be an absolute no-brainer to require imo. I've so many older Android phones floating around that would still make for great backup phones or dedicated usage for stuff you don't want on your main phone, but they're stuck with horribly out of date Android versions.
klyrs 4y ago
I agree with the principle, but I think your notion of "obsolete" doesn't really match the incremental nature of hardware/software development. When does an iphone go "obsolete"? Apple re-uses pieces, giving them minor tweaks along the way, and stops making and even supporting the old ones after a while. But the code in a phone I would call obsolete will still live on in a current phone. Companies worried about their precious IP will still have a valid excuse to not release the source.
95014_refugee 4y ago
The suggestion that an individual or a community could actually build, let alone maintain, any of these OS distributions for older hardware is disingenuous. There is literally no chance whatsoever that, even with complete access to all of the sources, any individual or community organisation could build an iOS distribution; not even once, let alone on any sort of cadence that would make the effort worthwhile. The required build infrastructure is massive, and maintained by a dedicated priesthood whose existence and experience are an integral part of the machinery. Let's not even get into testing, or carrier qualification, or support, or ... This is well known, and not a subject for meaningful debate. Any writer claiming that "just releasing the source" would result in any of the claimed benefits is lying in service of some other objective (or delusional, but probably just lying).
- Krutonium 4y ago
  I can't help but to disagree. Just look at Linux Distributions for an example proving you wrong, let alone things like TWRP; a recovery partition that with relatively little work builds and works on most any phone that will take it; or any of the big Android Distributions that deal with hundreds of phone models. A custom build of iOS would be nothing by comparison.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  > The suggestion that an individual or a community could actually build, let alone maintain, any of these OS distributions for older hardware is disingenuous. Well that's just objectively false, unless I'm misunderstanding you. I'm writing this message on a phone running an open source Android build, which I reasonably and with precedent expect to keep getting updates long after the manufacturer has abandoned it. The thing you say is impossible is done every day.
- Vrondi 4y ago
  You are displaying your ignorance. I ran an AOSP build customized by volunteer enthusiasts on a smartphone that originally shipped with Windows Mobile on it. With zero issues. For _years_. The HTC Vogue lasted me from Windows Mobile through Android Cupcake, Doughnut, and Eclair, working perfectly all the while. It's completely possible if the manufacturers aren't sheer jerks. That enthusiast work combined with Open Source code kept me from creating at least 3-4 smartphones worth of ewaste by extending the life of my device, and it functioned better for most of that time that it originally had out of the box. There is also decent enthusiast/volunteer support for things like routers and other gadgets out there. The only reasons this isn't common are paranoia and desire for profit over all other customer and environmental welfare concerns.
- rodgerd 4y ago
  While I think that a lot of the "right to repair" and "right to tinker" folks dramatically over-estimate the value provided - just look at the complaints about self-repair of iPhones now that it's possible! - projects like the CHDK firmware for Canon cameras show that motivated communities can certainly do amazing things with devices.

iforgotpassword 4y ago

Yes, unlocking bootloaders the moment you stop shipping updates would be an absolute no-brainer to require imo. I've so many older Android phones floating around that would still make for great backup phones or dedicated usage for stuff you don't want on your main phone, but they're stuck with horribly out of date Android versions.

klyrs 4y ago

I agree with the principle, but I think your notion of "obsolete" doesn't really match the incremental nature of hardware/software development. When does an iphone go "obsolete"? Apple re-uses pieces, giving them minor tweaks along the way, and stops making and even supporting the old ones after a while. But the code in a phone I would call obsolete will still live on in a current phone. Companies worried about their precious IP will still have a valid excuse to not release the source.

95014_refugee 4y ago

The suggestion that an individual or a community could actually build, let alone maintain, any of these OS distributions for older hardware is disingenuous. There is literally no chance whatsoever that, even with complete access to all of the sources, any individual or community organisation could build an iOS distribution; not even once, let alone on any sort of cadence that would make the effort worthwhile. The required build infrastructure is massive, and maintained by a dedicated priesthood whose existence and experience are an integral part of the machinery. Let's not even get into testing, or carrier qualification, or support, or ... This is well known, and not a subject for meaningful debate. Any writer claiming that "just releasing the source" would result in any of the claimed benefits is lying in service of some other objective (or delusional, but probably just lying).

Krutonium 4y ago
I can't help but to disagree. Just look at Linux Distributions for an example proving you wrong, let alone things like TWRP; a recovery partition that with relatively little work builds and works on most any phone that will take it; or any of the big Android Distributions that deal with hundreds of phone models. A custom build of iOS would be nothing by comparison.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> The suggestion that an individual or a community could actually build, let alone maintain, any of these OS distributions for older hardware is disingenuous. Well that's just objectively false, unless I'm misunderstanding you. I'm writing this message on a phone running an open source Android build, which I reasonably and with precedent expect to keep getting updates long after the manufacturer has abandoned it. The thing you say is impossible is done every day.
Vrondi 4y ago
You are displaying your ignorance. I ran an AOSP build customized by volunteer enthusiasts on a smartphone that originally shipped with Windows Mobile on it. With zero issues. For _years_. The HTC Vogue lasted me from Windows Mobile through Android Cupcake, Doughnut, and Eclair, working perfectly all the while. It's completely possible if the manufacturers aren't sheer jerks. That enthusiast work combined with Open Source code kept me from creating at least 3-4 smartphones worth of ewaste by extending the life of my device, and it functioned better for most of that time that it originally had out of the box. There is also decent enthusiast/volunteer support for things like routers and other gadgets out there. The only reasons this isn't common are paranoia and desire for profit over all other customer and environmental welfare concerns.
rodgerd 4y ago
While I think that a lot of the "right to repair" and "right to tinker" folks dramatically over-estimate the value provided - just look at the complaints about self-repair of iPhones now that it's possible! - projects like the CHDK firmware for Canon cameras show that motivated communities can certainly do amazing things with devices.