6 ms·

We were told it was better to let the teachers teach otherwise kids learn bad habits or don’t engage. That being said our eldest went to school at 4 1/2 in Aus

We were told it was better to let the teachers teach otherwise kids learn bad habits or don’t engage. That being said our eldest went to school at 4 1/2 in Australia and they had to learn 100 words in their first year (phonics), and we were a little worried that it seemed so intense, though she ended up learning 200 or so and went on to become a voracious reader. But then we moved to the US and our youngest started school at 5 1/2 and had to learn 20 words in her first year and is now 7 and can barely read. In hindsight it does seem so late, and I agree there is so much of the world and learning and curiosity they miss out on by not being able to read.

rutthenut 3y ago
>> We were told it was better to let the teachers teach otherwise kids learn bad habits or don’t engage. That sounds like very dubious advice to me, even if given with best intentions. Surely if parents read books to their kids, with their kids, then it is a natural step for the kids to start learning the words and word sounds by reading too?
- nice2meetu 3y ago
  Reading back what I wrote, yes, we never took this as a warning not to let them learn at all! I think the intention was more that there is less incentive to actively push or pressure kids in to reading before school, and that actively trying to teach them one methodology might even conflict with the method they end up being taught in school. That parents try to "get their kids ready for school" by getting them to read before starting, and that doing so is unnecessary. That is how we took it.
  - siftrics 3y ago
    How could anyone take the advice "don't teach your kids" seriously? Are you insane? It makes no sense on any level. How does NOT teaching your kid to read help them? It's as if people don't have brains anymore.
    - vuln 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - curiousbean 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - DwnVoteHoneyPot 3y ago
    > actively trying to teach them one methodology might even conflict with the method they end up being taught in school That's what happened with me. My teacher would give me zero on a math question if use the methodology my dad taught me.
- batch12 3y ago
  Yeah, I think every person is different. My first kid learned to read himself from watching educational material and using a computer. He knew the alphabet before anyone could really understand his words. His siblings needed someone to walk them through the concepts.
DocTomoe 3y ago
Is this an anglosaxon thing? Here in Germany, I have never heard of anyone telling a child they had to "learn x words". We teach letters and common diphthongs, and then make the kids understand that these glyphs can form words with meanings. When I look at my father's schoolbooks, that already was the common way to teach reading in the 1950s.
- bluGill 3y ago
  Probably - English doesn't have good rules of spelling, so phonetics is not a good approach to learning to read. There are often several different phonetic ways you could spell a world, only one of which is right (to, too, two). In reverse there are often several different phonetic ways to pronounce a written word. As someone with Dysgraphia I often wished we reformed English to be more phonetic (I'm not sure if it would help me spell, but it wouldn't hurt)
  - LambdaComplex 3y ago
    > There are often several different phonetic ways you could spell a world, only one of which is right (to, too, two). And "two" isn't even a phonetic spelling!
  - gladiatr72 3y ago
    Um. You have not read any pre-19th century English-language literature, have you? If you think there are no good rules, expose yourself to how the language was written before there were _any_ such rules. Finnigin's Wake, anything by Cotton Mathers and the like.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      The added rules were just memorize the one correct way to spell. Previously it's was phonetic, and everyone used different spellings. Of course it looks less phonetic if you are unaware of how phonics change. (U and V switched roles as one example)
      - 3y ago
nohaydeprobleme 3y ago
That's interesting because in the 1960 novel To Kill a Mockingbird (widely taught in the US and well-known in other countries), there's a scene where the character Scout is criticized in school by her teacher, when it's discovered that Scout learned to read ahead of the curriculum, from her father at home. The teacher expressed the concern that Scout might end up learning how to read incorrectly. If I remember correctly, the end result was that Atticus (Scout's father) told his daughter that she could secretly continue to read at home, just without telling her teacher, to avoid conflicts in class. ~~ Except from the novel (where "I" is the character Scout): “Teach me?” I said in surprise. “He hasn’t taught me anything, Miss Caroline. Atticus ain’t got time to teach me anything,” I added, when Miss Caroline smiled and shook her head. “Why, he’s so tired at night he just sits in the livingroom and reads.” “If he didn’t teach you, who did?” Miss Caroline asked good-naturedly. “Somebody did. You weren’t born reading The Mobile Register.” “Jem says I was. He read in a book where I was a Bullfinch instead of a Finch. Jem says my name’s really Jean Louise Bullfinch, that I got swapped when I was born and I’m really a-” Miss Caroline apparently thought I was lying. “Let’s not let our imaginations run away with us, dear,” she said. “Now you tell your father not to teach you any more. It’s best to begin reading with a fresh mind. You tell him I’ll take over from here and try to undo the damage-” “Ma’am?” “Your father does not know how to teach. You can have a seat now.” I mumbled that I was sorry and retired meditating upon my crime. [...] I knew I had annoyed Miss Caroline, so I let well enough alone and stared out the window until recess when Jem [Scout's older brother] cut me from the covey of first-graders in the schoolyard. He asked how I was getting along. I told him. “If I didn’t have to stay I’d leave. Jem, that damn lady says Atticus’s been teaching me to read and for him to stop it-” “Don’t worry, Scout,” Jem comforted me. “Our teacher says Miss Caroline’s introducing a new way of teaching. She learned about it in college. It’ll be in all the grades soon. You don’t have to learn much out of books that way—it’s like if you wanta learn about cows, you go milk one, see?” ~~ Contrary to this approach in teaching, in my university courses, my professors in math and the Spanish language always encouraged additional reading and study outside of class (oftentimes, this was written directly in the syllabus or part of class discussions). So, I haven't heard much about professors being concerned about students learning the "wrong way"—I suspect that many educators are happy in general when students seek to learn from additional materials outside of what's presented in class.
siftrics 3y ago
"We were told" seems to always preface failure and disappointment. How do people blindly trust random figures of authority? It's mind boggling.
- bell-cot 3y ago
  Not trusting authority figures tends to be extremely laborious, give little benefit, and gets you socially marked as an oddball. Trusting authority figures generally is easy and works out well. 'Till it doesn't. But that's an unknown ways into the future, and you'll have plenty of social acceptance & sympathy for your "perfectly reasonable" misfortune.
  - siftrics 3y ago
    It's not laborious. Just think for yourself. Don't delegate critical thinking to some random idiot or stranger. Being marked as an oddball is a very minor downside compared to your kids not being able to read well. It's called "common sense" and you're arguing against it.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    Not trusting authority figures is the #1 advice for success in life, and has been since the invention of "authorities". The goal of "authorities" are always to harm you as an individual and the more you follow them, the more harmed you will be. There is really no limit to how bad they are willing to make your short existence on earth, including - but not limited to - putting you in a muddy trench to be slaughtered by the enemy's artillery.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
tourmalinetaco 3y ago
20 words in their first year? That’s insane. Granted I haven’t been in the US system for 20 odd years, but I believe we easily learned 100-150 in our first year here.

rutthenut 3y ago

>> We were told it was better to let the teachers teach otherwise kids learn bad habits or don’t engage. That sounds like very dubious advice to me, even if given with best intentions. Surely if parents read books to their kids, with their kids, then it is a natural step for the kids to start learning the words and word sounds by reading too?

nice2meetu 3y ago
Reading back what I wrote, yes, we never took this as a warning not to let them learn at all! I think the intention was more that there is less incentive to actively push or pressure kids in to reading before school, and that actively trying to teach them one methodology might even conflict with the method they end up being taught in school. That parents try to "get their kids ready for school" by getting them to read before starting, and that doing so is unnecessary. That is how we took it.
- siftrics 3y ago
  How could anyone take the advice "don't teach your kids" seriously? Are you insane? It makes no sense on any level. How does NOT teaching your kid to read help them? It's as if people don't have brains anymore.
  - vuln 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - curiousbean 3y ago
      [flagged]
- DwnVoteHoneyPot 3y ago
  > actively trying to teach them one methodology might even conflict with the method they end up being taught in school That's what happened with me. My teacher would give me zero on a math question if use the methodology my dad taught me.
batch12 3y ago
Yeah, I think every person is different. My first kid learned to read himself from watching educational material and using a computer. He knew the alphabet before anyone could really understand his words. His siblings needed someone to walk them through the concepts.

DocTomoe 3y ago

Is this an anglosaxon thing? Here in Germany, I have never heard of anyone telling a child they had to "learn x words". We teach letters and common diphthongs, and then make the kids understand that these glyphs can form words with meanings. When I look at my father's schoolbooks, that already was the common way to teach reading in the 1950s.

bluGill 3y ago
Probably - English doesn't have good rules of spelling, so phonetics is not a good approach to learning to read. There are often several different phonetic ways you could spell a world, only one of which is right (to, too, two). In reverse there are often several different phonetic ways to pronounce a written word. As someone with Dysgraphia I often wished we reformed English to be more phonetic (I'm not sure if it would help me spell, but it wouldn't hurt)
- LambdaComplex 3y ago
  > There are often several different phonetic ways you could spell a world, only one of which is right (to, too, two). And "two" isn't even a phonetic spelling!
- gladiatr72 3y ago
  Um. You have not read any pre-19th century English-language literature, have you? If you think there are no good rules, expose yourself to how the language was written before there were _any_ such rules. Finnigin's Wake, anything by Cotton Mathers and the like.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    The added rules were just memorize the one correct way to spell. Previously it's was phonetic, and everyone used different spellings. Of course it looks less phonetic if you are unaware of how phonics change. (U and V switched roles as one example)
    - 3y ago

nohaydeprobleme 3y ago

That's interesting because in the 1960 novel To Kill a Mockingbird (widely taught in the US and well-known in other countries), there's a scene where the character Scout is criticized in school by her teacher, when it's discovered that Scout learned to read ahead of the curriculum, from her father at home. The teacher expressed the concern that Scout might end up learning how to read incorrectly. If I remember correctly, the end result was that Atticus (Scout's father) told his daughter that she could secretly continue to read at home, just without telling her teacher, to avoid conflicts in class. ~~ Except from the novel (where "I" is the character Scout): “Teach me?” I said in surprise. “He hasn’t taught me anything, Miss Caroline. Atticus ain’t got time to teach me anything,” I added, when Miss Caroline smiled and shook her head. “Why, he’s so tired at night he just sits in the livingroom and reads.” “If he didn’t teach you, who did?” Miss Caroline asked good-naturedly. “Somebody did. You weren’t born reading The Mobile Register.” “Jem says I was. He read in a book where I was a Bullfinch instead of a Finch. Jem says my name’s really Jean Louise Bullfinch, that I got swapped when I was born and I’m really a-” Miss Caroline apparently thought I was lying. “Let’s not let our imaginations run away with us, dear,” she said. “Now you tell your father not to teach you any more. It’s best to begin reading with a fresh mind. You tell him I’ll take over from here and try to undo the damage-” “Ma’am?” “Your father does not know how to teach. You can have a seat now.” I mumbled that I was sorry and retired meditating upon my crime. [...] I knew I had annoyed Miss Caroline, so I let well enough alone and stared out the window until recess when Jem [Scout's older brother] cut me from the covey of first-graders in the schoolyard. He asked how I was getting along. I told him. “If I didn’t have to stay I’d leave. Jem, that damn lady says Atticus’s been teaching me to read and for him to stop it-” “Don’t worry, Scout,” Jem comforted me. “Our teacher says Miss Caroline’s introducing a new way of teaching. She learned about it in college. It’ll be in all the grades soon. You don’t have to learn much out of books that way—it’s like if you wanta learn about cows, you go milk one, see?” ~~ Contrary to this approach in teaching, in my university courses, my professors in math and the Spanish language always encouraged additional reading and study outside of class (oftentimes, this was written directly in the syllabus or part of class discussions). So, I haven't heard much about professors being concerned about students learning the "wrong way"—I suspect that many educators are happy in general when students seek to learn from additional materials outside of what's presented in class.

siftrics 3y ago

"We were told" seems to always preface failure and disappointment. How do people blindly trust random figures of authority? It's mind boggling.

bell-cot 3y ago
Not trusting authority figures tends to be extremely laborious, give little benefit, and gets you socially marked as an oddball. Trusting authority figures generally is easy and works out well. 'Till it doesn't. But that's an unknown ways into the future, and you'll have plenty of social acceptance & sympathy for your "perfectly reasonable" misfortune.
- siftrics 3y ago
  It's not laborious. Just think for yourself. Don't delegate critical thinking to some random idiot or stranger. Being marked as an oddball is a very minor downside compared to your kids not being able to read well. It's called "common sense" and you're arguing against it.
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Not trusting authority figures is the #1 advice for success in life, and has been since the invention of "authorities". The goal of "authorities" are always to harm you as an individual and the more you follow them, the more harmed you will be. There is really no limit to how bad they are willing to make your short existence on earth, including - but not limited to - putting you in a muddy trench to be slaughtered by the enemy's artillery.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

tourmalinetaco 3y ago

20 words in their first year? That’s insane. Granted I haven’t been in the US system for 20 odd years, but I believe we easily learned 100-150 in our first year here.