> it is very helpful for the builders of those new components to communicate with each other during the process. IMHO, it's about communication and incentive s

> it is very helpful for the builders of those new components to communicate with each other during the process. IMHO, it's about communication and incentive structures. Each person is naturally going to optimize for the incentives of their local team, so the job of the organizational-designer is to align these incentive structures across teams. > since I advocate for professional testing (rather than amateur testing that Agilists prefer) ... Testers benefit more by working together than they do by hanging around developers, since only coding testers really can deeply understand the devs and the code, and when they try they simply become junior developers and lose all the critical distance that makes independent testing effective. This is really interesting to me, since I largely believe the opposite: Engineers should be writing their own tests, because otherwise they won't be incentivized to write good, clean, maintainable, testable code. Can you share more about your take on this? Sounds like you've probably had similar conversations before — any particular case studies or data you like to lean on?