5 ms·

Well, regardless of what you think about who is in the right morally and legally, I will say one thing: Nintendo sure knows how to take an opportunity for good

by jchw 4y ago

Well, regardless of what you think about who is in the right morally and legally, I will say one thing: Nintendo sure knows how to take an opportunity for good PR and turn it into a PR nightmare for essentially no gain. Nintendo definitely manages to succeed in spite of their corporate antics and absolutely not as a result of them.

bragr 4y ago
>Nintendo sure knows how to take an opportunity for good PR and turn it into a PR nightmare for essentially no gain. Nintendo definitely manages to succeed in spite of their corporate antics and absolutely not as a result of them. Counterpoint: maybe none of the people they have drama with are their core customers. Nintendo seems to have a similar "Disney Adult" problem as Disney where you have a population of vocal adults who think they are the core customer, but in reality the company moved on to selling to those people's children or grandchildren years ago.
- viraptor 4y ago
  Pointcrow is not really their customer. He's their free marketing service. Most of his content seems to be based on Nintendo games - and that works for at least some of the actual customer base. Reviews and trailers are fun and all, but I think every game I bought in the last few years was a result of me seeing a stream of someone having fun playing it. I know others who do the same. They essentially put an advertisement of how much they suck in place of a free ad space they were given.
  - bragr 4y ago
    >He's their free marketing service. Is he though? Looking about his top videos, I see lots of "pro gaming" or speedruns, so I circle back to my earlier question of who is their core audience? I suspect this kind of content doesn't move the needle on units sold very much.
    - viraptor 4y ago
      Pro gaming and speedruns are still free marketing - there will be people who know the games and come for the challenge content, but there will be others as well who are going to enjoy the show and buy their own copy. I'm not saying he's bringing in their core demographics. Just that he makes some sales for them.
      - edgyquant 4y ago
        I seriously doubt watching a speed run has sold any units at all. Those are the things people watch for games they already love.
        JeremyBanks 4y ago
        [dead]
        galleywest200 4y ago
        Maybe not console units, but I am sure it has sold games themselves. Games (and accessories) are where the money is, console units are commonly sold at or below cost
        sverona 4y ago
        Tetris: The Grand Master, a '90s arcade game that's been out of print for twenty years, was just rereleased for Switch more or less entirely because of its speedrunning community.
        jchw 4y ago
        It's sad what happened to that game. I feel that Arika's take on Tetris would've resonated with a lot of people had it not been forced into obscurity by the bizarre regime of guideline Tetris. But, the behavior of The Tetris Company is it's own bag of worms, and an even more agitating one than Nintendo. If anyone was looking for an example of how to be worse, I think TTC may very well have the formula down.
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    People making videos think they’re free advertising, but that doesn’t mean they’re the kind of ads companies want. Corporations have an image they want to maintain, it’s pretty egregious to think you’re doing them a favor making money off of their products.
    - KennyBlanken 4y ago
      In what bizarre reality did the standard for "what you're allowed to publish or engage in public discourse about" become "does not make you money and is preferential to any companies whose products appear in or are discussed in the videos"?
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      As it stands, the only "image" these corporations are maintaining is "suit-wearing hypercapitalist squares who only love money and absolutely despise anything resembling fun or creativity". Issuing takedowns over "the wrong kind" of ad is counterproductive.
      - rchaud 4y ago
        Not when the raison d'etre of these channels is basically Nintendo brand worship.
  - rickdeckard 4y ago
    > I think every game I bought in the last few years was a result of me seeing a stream of someone having fun playing it. I know others who do the same. Considering the stable sales of Nintendo products, this still seems to work despite Nintendo policing content for many years now. So despite smaller blips like this one, one might argue that they're actually quite good in curating the content they want to use for marketing...
  - ajmurmann 4y ago
    > Pointcrow is not really their customer. He's their free marketing service. That angle actually pushed me closer to Nintendo's reasoning. If people buy games because they see them on these streams, what's the likely buying decision from seeing a super cool new feature for Breath of the Wild that only works on emulator? I'd wager that it increases the likelihood of getting a Steamdeck instead of a Switch and playing the emulated version instead. That seems like an occurrence that Nintendo wants less of.
    - jchw 4y ago
      Well, if only there was a way for Nintendo to deal with this kind of issue, right? Like for example, I think it's clear that the experience of running older Nintendo games on emulators was better than bothering with the real thing or re-releases on services like virtual console because you could use features like online multiplayer, rewind/save states, and emulator enhancements. But of course, Nintendo did kind of start to figure this out; they actually started implementing similar value-adds like multiplayer and save states into their own emulation suites for retro consoles. I think this is good, since you're essentially asking people to buy the same thing again (maybe thrice or more if you're a die hard Nintendo fan who has followed the console lineage since they started doing re-releases like this, back on the Wii and 3DS.); you may as well provide some value-adds. But, maybe they can't do anything about modding, because nobody has figured that out? Well... except for Valve, who has apparently figured that out. And maybe even SEGA arguably, who also has figured that out, too, considering they have third-party ROM hacks on Steam Workshop. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Of course, I think Nintendo's heritage, history, etc. makes it clear that it would be unlikely for them, any time soon, to take pages out of anyone else's book. Obviously, Valve is just a very different company, and PC gaming is a very different market. I think, though, that a lot of people believe it would be damaging to Nintendo's brand and lose them money if they were more open and fostered this sort of thing, but I think it's hyperbole, I don't see it. In all likelihood, if Nintendo keeps making great video games, people will probably keep buying them, even begrudgingly, just like many people do today, regardless of whether they're dicks to people or they're not. Stubbornness can be good sometimes, but it definitely leads people and entities to pick fights that are pretty much unwinnable. Eventually, they're going to have to find the line. (P.S.: I do actually agree though that there is truth, 100%, to the idea that piracy could substantially hurt sales; I think Nintendo is the only company to have experienced tangible evidence of this, with the Nintendo DS and readily available R4 flash cartridge. THAT SAID: If you don't buy a Nintendo Switch and Nintendo Switch cartridges, you can't play online; the console and cartridges/downloaded games have unique IDs online, AFAIK. I think that this is probably effective anti-piracy. Sure, people COULD pirate a single player game from Nintendo, but getting a Steam Deck instead of a Switch seems unlikely; If you're a Nintendo fan, you are not going to get as much value out of running a Steam Deck with emulators. I posit that the majority of people will wind up buying the game, but some of them may also play around with emulation, too. If people really just didn't want to pay for Zelda, a TON of Switch consoles that have the hardware exploit can use the RCM exploit and probably run pirated copies on the real thing with third party modified firmware. The truth is, if backlash from these videos isn't enough to harm their sales, and clearly it isn't, then I suspect the reach of these creators just isn't enough to matter in the first place.)
- jchw 4y ago
  Video games still have a reputation for being a children's affair even though less than a quarter of people who play video games are under 18. Granted, the demographic may actually be a little skewed for Nintendo, but frankly, I doubt it's that much different. Even if this is true, though, I am pretty sure that videos on topics like "Breath of the Wild multiplayer" absolutely appeal to Nintendo consumers, even younger ones. Thinking about all of the schoolyard banter and rumors about video games, I can only imagine how crazy it is that these days, some of the wild "what if?" scenarios are actually made true by skilled, motivated fans. I do not play many video games these days, so admittedly it is hard for me to be sure. However, I have seen the way that kids respond to this DMCA garbage, and I have never gotten any impression other than that it feels like a great injustice and an unfortunate reality. If Nintendo really didn't care about the demographic of these videos, then it truly begs the question why they care so much to suppress it. They also were doing the same thing when it came to videos of Switch games running on the Valve Steam Deck. Clearly, they have some motivated interest.
  - somsak2 4y ago
    > less than a quarter of people who play video games are under 18 I think this is deceiving. Sure, in terms of raw numbers there are a good number of adult gamers. But I'd like to see this statistic play-time-weighted.
- birracerveza 4y ago
  Their products are targeted towards the younger demographics and those who buy their product do not mind that much. This, however, is a completely different problem that has nothing to do with the products themselves, it's Nintendo's legal team showing absolutely no mercy towards their own content creators, which also includes teenagers, for very little gain... Which is a damn shame, because the work these content creators do is amazing. Instead of sending C&Ds and squandering that potential, Nintendo should work with these people.
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    These are not nintendos “content creators” they are a business who use nintendos IP for profit. You can argue it’s fair use or that it’s “good marketting” for Nintendo but as a company they have every right to dispute that.
    - birracerveza 4y ago
      Oh yes I am not saying they are not entitled to protect their IP, just that they are unnecessarily hostile about it.
- shidoshi 4y ago
  Yeah, this is mostly correct. Source: worked there for 9 years.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  At least as far as the Disney theme park division, it seems like they are actively catering to the adult crowd. These days, the theme parks seem to be mostly adults.
- bastardoperator 4y ago
  How do grandchildren afford park hopper tickets, streaming services, season passes, or vacation clubs? My oldest grandchild is 7 years old for reference.
djaychela 4y ago
I spoke to my 16 year old about this the other day. He's pretty laid back, and in a fairly responsible friend group. They all hate Nintendo. Love their products, but hate the company, precisely because of this sort of thing. A lot of this gains them nothing other than resentment.
- dfxm12 4y ago
  If they all end up getting new games like Tears of the Kingdom, then I'm not quite sure why Nintendo would change course.
  - jchw 4y ago
    I think that's why this sucks, though. I think that people actually do appreciate the products that Nintendo make; they clearly employ and work with some of the best talent in the game dev industry, which is not surprising given their history. In general, this idea of "voting with one's wallet" is romantically appealing, but in practice asking people to make purchasing decisions for things like entertainment media based on things like this doesn't seem to work. And I think it's more complicated than JUST mindshare: I think even people who want to boycott things wind up buying them anyways a lot of the time. I think it's not apparent that Nintendo actually has to behave this way. There is a general notion that other game developers fall elsewhere on the spectrum, with SEGA falling on the more permissive end (though notably, they are not free of drama from DMCA takedowns, but they have a much better reputation of being lax, working with fans, and generally just having better PR overall. I did receive a DMCA takedown request from SEGA once, and yet I can attest to this all still.)
  - kodt 4y ago
    Yeah, it reminds me of this image: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--W8ZYHe9O--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18j48weujcgewjpg.jpg https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--W8ZYHe9...
- x-complexity 4y ago
  > I spoke to my 16 year old about this the other day. He's pretty laid back, and in a fairly responsible friend group. They all hate Nintendo. Love their products, but hate the company, precisely because of this sort of thing. A lot of this gains them nothing other than resentment. The hate is worthless in Nintendo's eyes: All that matters is whether or not they'll keep buying <Insert Nintendo product here>. And for most people, they'll continue to buy 'em. Unless their revenue significantly suffers, it will be business as usual.
naikrovek 4y ago
No one hates Nintendo fans more than Nintendo.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Nobody spends more on Nintendo products than fans that claim to hate Nintendo.
  - jchw 4y ago
    That sort of makes sense, most of the people who care about something are going to be somewhat invested.
RajT88 4y ago
It is a snarky thing to say, and may or may not be true... But I feel like they took this kind of play from the Sony playbook.
fauxpause_ 4y ago
> nightmare PR It changes nothing. It’s not a nightmare. It’s not even problematic for them.
- jchw 4y ago
  A PR nightmare != a financial problem. Indeed, if your company exists in a vacuum, PR is no issue for you! However, I worked at Google, and I'm telling you right now that negative reception and bad press takes a toll on employee morale, among other things. That's because companies, of course, don't exist in a vacuum where there's never any consequences. Of course, nobody is suggesting that Nintendo is going to go bankrupt because they were mean to some YouTubers who ostensibly didn't do anything wrong, but just because there's no easy way to quantify the impact does not mean it will never matter. It does matter. I promise you, they are not sitting there thinking "Alright yeah! A bunch of people are really pissed off at us! High fives all around, this is exactly what we aim to do here at Nintendo!"
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    > I promise you, they are not sitting there thinking "Alright yeah! A bunch of people are really pissed off at us! High fives all around, this is exactly what we aim to do here at Nintendo!" Despite that, there could be a handful of people with influential roles in the company who consider this to be a part of doing business. To your point, those same people would likely still know about this situation (rather, the general situation around copyright / marketing) and understand why they make the decisions they make while still being genuinely concerned with the trade-offs. To your parent commenter's point, that doesn't mean this is any sort of crisis (or "nightmare") to the most influential decision-makers at Nintendo; it's just part of their job.
    - jchw 4y ago
      I think maybe the phrasing "PR nightmare" is doing too much work here. All I meant to imply is that this is bad PR for Nintendo, not that it is causing them to go to the war room. Maybe PR nightmare is simply too strong of a term. I disagree that it is a complete non-issue, though.
gs17 4y ago
Their fans don't really care in my experience, so there's no actual PR cost. "I can't believe they shut down another Smash tournament! ...but I'll still gladly pay for Ultimate a second time to get the DLC." I know a lot of people who both think they're a terrible company and can't wait to buy the new Zelda from them.
- jchw 4y ago
  I mean, I think this is just something you could generally say about boycotts against video games. Even the most hated companies in the industry still rarely see any problems with PR backlash hurting sales except in rare cases. For example, not a game I really have any interest in, but I know Hogwarts Legacy had possibly the strongest backlash I've seen in recent memory and yet it sold gangbusters according to media. Then there's Electronic Arts and Activision Blizzard, who are definitely becoming some of the most hated game developers in the industry, and yet, they seem to be doing just fine. Nintendo is a beloved company in spite of these antics, so I don't ever expect it to matter more for them. I still challenge the notion that this PR backlash doesn't have any cost and will never have more cost. Probably the largest immediate issue with PR backlash like this is simply that it hurts employee morale. Does it really not matter? Well, speaking of Super Smash Bros, they pretty much killed the Panda Cup and most of the rest of the official events with their antics, and probably guaranteed that the SSBM community will never touch Nintendo sanctioned anything again. Not surprising, really, given that's pretty much how it always has been with them, but on the other hand, isn't it kind of crazy? Nintendo barely has any official competitive tournaments, even though they have at least a couple of games with decently big community scenes world-wide. Compare any other fighting game or even just other large franchises like Fortnite and I can't help like they blew many potential opportunities that could've provided value in at least O(millions) of dollars.
overstay8930 4y ago
You can have bad PR but if you have what people want, it doesn't matter. Nintendo won't lose sales, just like how Apple doesn't lose sales when factory workers try to kill themselves.
- nickpeterson 4y ago
  I don’t know, Apple definitely had to do damage control around that. Nintendo basically guards against pissing off parents. I think they come down hard on uncontrolled use of IP because to tacitly allow it seems like condoning it. If you just slam everything, parents feel like they can trust the brand. My main problem with Nintendo is that their game systems are too difficult for young children to actually use.

by jchw 4y ago

bragr 4y ago

>Nintendo sure knows how to take an opportunity for good PR and turn it into a PR nightmare for essentially no gain. Nintendo definitely manages to succeed in spite of their corporate antics and absolutely not as a result of them. Counterpoint: maybe none of the people they have drama with are their core customers. Nintendo seems to have a similar "Disney Adult" problem as Disney where you have a population of vocal adults who think they are the core customer, but in reality the company moved on to selling to those people's children or grandchildren years ago.

viraptor 4y ago
Pointcrow is not really their customer. He's their free marketing service. Most of his content seems to be based on Nintendo games - and that works for at least some of the actual customer base. Reviews and trailers are fun and all, but I think every game I bought in the last few years was a result of me seeing a stream of someone having fun playing it. I know others who do the same. They essentially put an advertisement of how much they suck in place of a free ad space they were given.
- bragr 4y ago
  >He's their free marketing service. Is he though? Looking about his top videos, I see lots of "pro gaming" or speedruns, so I circle back to my earlier question of who is their core audience? I suspect this kind of content doesn't move the needle on units sold very much.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    Pro gaming and speedruns are still free marketing - there will be people who know the games and come for the challenge content, but there will be others as well who are going to enjoy the show and buy their own copy. I'm not saying he's bringing in their core demographics. Just that he makes some sales for them.
    - edgyquant 4y ago
      I seriously doubt watching a speed run has sold any units at all. Those are the things people watch for games they already love.
      - JeremyBanks 4y ago
        [dead]
      - galleywest200 4y ago
        Maybe not console units, but I am sure it has sold games themselves. Games (and accessories) are where the money is, console units are commonly sold at or below cost
      - sverona 4y ago
        Tetris: The Grand Master, a '90s arcade game that's been out of print for twenty years, was just rereleased for Switch more or less entirely because of its speedrunning community.
        jchw 4y ago
        It's sad what happened to that game. I feel that Arika's take on Tetris would've resonated with a lot of people had it not been forced into obscurity by the bizarre regime of guideline Tetris. But, the behavior of The Tetris Company is it's own bag of worms, and an even more agitating one than Nintendo. If anyone was looking for an example of how to be worse, I think TTC may very well have the formula down.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  People making videos think they’re free advertising, but that doesn’t mean they’re the kind of ads companies want. Corporations have an image they want to maintain, it’s pretty egregious to think you’re doing them a favor making money off of their products.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    In what bizarre reality did the standard for "what you're allowed to publish or engage in public discourse about" become "does not make you money and is preferential to any companies whose products appear in or are discussed in the videos"?
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    As it stands, the only "image" these corporations are maintaining is "suit-wearing hypercapitalist squares who only love money and absolutely despise anything resembling fun or creativity". Issuing takedowns over "the wrong kind" of ad is counterproductive.
    - rchaud 4y ago
      Not when the raison d'etre of these channels is basically Nintendo brand worship.
- rickdeckard 4y ago
  > I think every game I bought in the last few years was a result of me seeing a stream of someone having fun playing it. I know others who do the same. Considering the stable sales of Nintendo products, this still seems to work despite Nintendo policing content for many years now. So despite smaller blips like this one, one might argue that they're actually quite good in curating the content they want to use for marketing...
- ajmurmann 4y ago
  > Pointcrow is not really their customer. He's their free marketing service. That angle actually pushed me closer to Nintendo's reasoning. If people buy games because they see them on these streams, what's the likely buying decision from seeing a super cool new feature for Breath of the Wild that only works on emulator? I'd wager that it increases the likelihood of getting a Steamdeck instead of a Switch and playing the emulated version instead. That seems like an occurrence that Nintendo wants less of.
  - jchw 4y ago
    Well, if only there was a way for Nintendo to deal with this kind of issue, right? Like for example, I think it's clear that the experience of running older Nintendo games on emulators was better than bothering with the real thing or re-releases on services like virtual console because you could use features like online multiplayer, rewind/save states, and emulator enhancements. But of course, Nintendo did kind of start to figure this out; they actually started implementing similar value-adds like multiplayer and save states into their own emulation suites for retro consoles. I think this is good, since you're essentially asking people to buy the same thing again (maybe thrice or more if you're a die hard Nintendo fan who has followed the console lineage since they started doing re-releases like this, back on the Wii and 3DS.); you may as well provide some value-adds. But, maybe they can't do anything about modding, because nobody has figured that out? Well... except for Valve, who has apparently figured that out. And maybe even SEGA arguably, who also has figured that out, too, considering they have third-party ROM hacks on Steam Workshop. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Of course, I think Nintendo's heritage, history, etc. makes it clear that it would be unlikely for them, any time soon, to take pages out of anyone else's book. Obviously, Valve is just a very different company, and PC gaming is a very different market. I think, though, that a lot of people believe it would be damaging to Nintendo's brand and lose them money if they were more open and fostered this sort of thing, but I think it's hyperbole, I don't see it. In all likelihood, if Nintendo keeps making great video games, people will probably keep buying them, even begrudgingly, just like many people do today, regardless of whether they're dicks to people or they're not. Stubbornness can be good sometimes, but it definitely leads people and entities to pick fights that are pretty much unwinnable. Eventually, they're going to have to find the line. (P.S.: I do actually agree though that there is truth, 100%, to the idea that piracy could substantially hurt sales; I think Nintendo is the only company to have experienced tangible evidence of this, with the Nintendo DS and readily available R4 flash cartridge. THAT SAID: If you don't buy a Nintendo Switch and Nintendo Switch cartridges, you can't play online; the console and cartridges/downloaded games have unique IDs online, AFAIK. I think that this is probably effective anti-piracy. Sure, people COULD pirate a single player game from Nintendo, but getting a Steam Deck instead of a Switch seems unlikely; If you're a Nintendo fan, you are not going to get as much value out of running a Steam Deck with emulators. I posit that the majority of people will wind up buying the game, but some of them may also play around with emulation, too. If people really just didn't want to pay for Zelda, a TON of Switch consoles that have the hardware exploit can use the RCM exploit and probably run pirated copies on the real thing with third party modified firmware. The truth is, if backlash from these videos isn't enough to harm their sales, and clearly it isn't, then I suspect the reach of these creators just isn't enough to matter in the first place.)
jchw 4y ago
Video games still have a reputation for being a children's affair even though less than a quarter of people who play video games are under 18. Granted, the demographic may actually be a little skewed for Nintendo, but frankly, I doubt it's that much different. Even if this is true, though, I am pretty sure that videos on topics like "Breath of the Wild multiplayer" absolutely appeal to Nintendo consumers, even younger ones. Thinking about all of the schoolyard banter and rumors about video games, I can only imagine how crazy it is that these days, some of the wild "what if?" scenarios are actually made true by skilled, motivated fans. I do not play many video games these days, so admittedly it is hard for me to be sure. However, I have seen the way that kids respond to this DMCA garbage, and I have never gotten any impression other than that it feels like a great injustice and an unfortunate reality. If Nintendo really didn't care about the demographic of these videos, then it truly begs the question why they care so much to suppress it. They also were doing the same thing when it came to videos of Switch games running on the Valve Steam Deck. Clearly, they have some motivated interest.
- somsak2 4y ago
  > less than a quarter of people who play video games are under 18 I think this is deceiving. Sure, in terms of raw numbers there are a good number of adult gamers. But I'd like to see this statistic play-time-weighted.
birracerveza 4y ago
Their products are targeted towards the younger demographics and those who buy their product do not mind that much. This, however, is a completely different problem that has nothing to do with the products themselves, it's Nintendo's legal team showing absolutely no mercy towards their own content creators, which also includes teenagers, for very little gain... Which is a damn shame, because the work these content creators do is amazing. Instead of sending C&Ds and squandering that potential, Nintendo should work with these people.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  These are not nintendos “content creators” they are a business who use nintendos IP for profit. You can argue it’s fair use or that it’s “good marketting” for Nintendo but as a company they have every right to dispute that.
  - birracerveza 4y ago
    Oh yes I am not saying they are not entitled to protect their IP, just that they are unnecessarily hostile about it.
shidoshi 4y ago
Yeah, this is mostly correct. Source: worked there for 9 years.
jjeaff 4y ago
At least as far as the Disney theme park division, it seems like they are actively catering to the adult crowd. These days, the theme parks seem to be mostly adults.
bastardoperator 4y ago
How do grandchildren afford park hopper tickets, streaming services, season passes, or vacation clubs? My oldest grandchild is 7 years old for reference.

djaychela 4y ago

I spoke to my 16 year old about this the other day. He's pretty laid back, and in a fairly responsible friend group. They all hate Nintendo. Love their products, but hate the company, precisely because of this sort of thing. A lot of this gains them nothing other than resentment.

dfxm12 4y ago
If they all end up getting new games like Tears of the Kingdom, then I'm not quite sure why Nintendo would change course.
- jchw 4y ago
  I think that's why this sucks, though. I think that people actually do appreciate the products that Nintendo make; they clearly employ and work with some of the best talent in the game dev industry, which is not surprising given their history. In general, this idea of "voting with one's wallet" is romantically appealing, but in practice asking people to make purchasing decisions for things like entertainment media based on things like this doesn't seem to work. And I think it's more complicated than JUST mindshare: I think even people who want to boycott things wind up buying them anyways a lot of the time. I think it's not apparent that Nintendo actually has to behave this way. There is a general notion that other game developers fall elsewhere on the spectrum, with SEGA falling on the more permissive end (though notably, they are not free of drama from DMCA takedowns, but they have a much better reputation of being lax, working with fans, and generally just having better PR overall. I did receive a DMCA takedown request from SEGA once, and yet I can attest to this all still.)
- kodt 4y ago
  Yeah, it reminds me of this image: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--W8ZYHe9O--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18j48weujcgewjpg.jpg https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--W8ZYHe9...
x-complexity 4y ago
> I spoke to my 16 year old about this the other day. He's pretty laid back, and in a fairly responsible friend group. They all hate Nintendo. Love their products, but hate the company, precisely because of this sort of thing. A lot of this gains them nothing other than resentment. The hate is worthless in Nintendo's eyes: All that matters is whether or not they'll keep buying <Insert Nintendo product here>. And for most people, they'll continue to buy 'em. Unless their revenue significantly suffers, it will be business as usual.

naikrovek 4y ago

No one hates Nintendo fans more than Nintendo.

mrguyorama 4y ago
Nobody spends more on Nintendo products than fans that claim to hate Nintendo.
- jchw 4y ago
  That sort of makes sense, most of the people who care about something are going to be somewhat invested.

RajT88 4y ago

It is a snarky thing to say, and may or may not be true... But I feel like they took this kind of play from the Sony playbook.

fauxpause_ 4y ago

> nightmare PR It changes nothing. It’s not a nightmare. It’s not even problematic for them.

jchw 4y ago
A PR nightmare != a financial problem. Indeed, if your company exists in a vacuum, PR is no issue for you! However, I worked at Google, and I'm telling you right now that negative reception and bad press takes a toll on employee morale, among other things. That's because companies, of course, don't exist in a vacuum where there's never any consequences. Of course, nobody is suggesting that Nintendo is going to go bankrupt because they were mean to some YouTubers who ostensibly didn't do anything wrong, but just because there's no easy way to quantify the impact does not mean it will never matter. It does matter. I promise you, they are not sitting there thinking "Alright yeah! A bunch of people are really pissed off at us! High fives all around, this is exactly what we aim to do here at Nintendo!"
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
  > I promise you, they are not sitting there thinking "Alright yeah! A bunch of people are really pissed off at us! High fives all around, this is exactly what we aim to do here at Nintendo!" Despite that, there could be a handful of people with influential roles in the company who consider this to be a part of doing business. To your point, those same people would likely still know about this situation (rather, the general situation around copyright / marketing) and understand why they make the decisions they make while still being genuinely concerned with the trade-offs. To your parent commenter's point, that doesn't mean this is any sort of crisis (or "nightmare") to the most influential decision-makers at Nintendo; it's just part of their job.
  - jchw 4y ago
    I think maybe the phrasing "PR nightmare" is doing too much work here. All I meant to imply is that this is bad PR for Nintendo, not that it is causing them to go to the war room. Maybe PR nightmare is simply too strong of a term. I disagree that it is a complete non-issue, though.

gs17 4y ago

Their fans don't really care in my experience, so there's no actual PR cost. "I can't believe they shut down another Smash tournament! ...but I'll still gladly pay for Ultimate a second time to get the DLC." I know a lot of people who both think they're a terrible company and can't wait to buy the new Zelda from them.

jchw 4y ago
I mean, I think this is just something you could generally say about boycotts against video games. Even the most hated companies in the industry still rarely see any problems with PR backlash hurting sales except in rare cases. For example, not a game I really have any interest in, but I know Hogwarts Legacy had possibly the strongest backlash I've seen in recent memory and yet it sold gangbusters according to media. Then there's Electronic Arts and Activision Blizzard, who are definitely becoming some of the most hated game developers in the industry, and yet, they seem to be doing just fine. Nintendo is a beloved company in spite of these antics, so I don't ever expect it to matter more for them. I still challenge the notion that this PR backlash doesn't have any cost and will never have more cost. Probably the largest immediate issue with PR backlash like this is simply that it hurts employee morale. Does it really not matter? Well, speaking of Super Smash Bros, they pretty much killed the Panda Cup and most of the rest of the official events with their antics, and probably guaranteed that the SSBM community will never touch Nintendo sanctioned anything again. Not surprising, really, given that's pretty much how it always has been with them, but on the other hand, isn't it kind of crazy? Nintendo barely has any official competitive tournaments, even though they have at least a couple of games with decently big community scenes world-wide. Compare any other fighting game or even just other large franchises like Fortnite and I can't help like they blew many potential opportunities that could've provided value in at least O(millions) of dollars.

overstay8930 4y ago

You can have bad PR but if you have what people want, it doesn't matter. Nintendo won't lose sales, just like how Apple doesn't lose sales when factory workers try to kill themselves.

nickpeterson 4y ago
I don’t know, Apple definitely had to do damage control around that. Nintendo basically guards against pissing off parents. I think they come down hard on uncontrolled use of IP because to tacitly allow it seems like condoning it. If you just slam everything, parents feel like they can trust the brand. My main problem with Nintendo is that their game systems are too difficult for young children to actually use.