5 ms·

Having "side loading" -- also known as regular app installation on non-phone platforms -- hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms or android. No reason to thin

by jmull 4y ago

Having "side loading" -- also known as regular app installation on non-phone platforms -- hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms or android. No reason to think it will on iOS either.

wmf 4y ago
A company can get taken down by a .pdf.scr file on Windows.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jmull 4y ago
  As if anyone is suggesting iOS adopt the Windows 95 security model.
  - tclancy 4y ago
    What people are suggesting is giving an entire new unsupervised point of entry and one with a lot of permissions is opening up unsuspecting users to these kinds of problems.
- vinyl7 4y ago
  Does apple throw a .pdf.scr at every app during validation?
- layer8 4y ago
  And iOS could by an iMessage [0]. OS bugs are OS bugs. On Windows, non-administrator accounts and GPO restrictions are the way to go, in an enterprise environment. [0] https://citizenlab.ca/2021/09/forcedentry-nso-group-imessage-zero-click-exploit-captured-in-the-wild/ https://citizenlab.ca/2021/09/forcedentry-nso-group-imessage...
- m463 4y ago
  On the other hand, you can install 3rd party firewalls, virus scanners and more on windows. That also means you can install programs to know what microsoft is doing with your comptuer, and protect yourself. Currently there is no way on ios to know what an app is really doing, and what it is sending where.
auguzanellato 4y ago
It caused more malware to spread for sure.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
ChicagoBoy11 4y ago
Wait... hasn't in? How many examples do you have of people dealing with ransomware on their non-jailbroken iPhone?
- thiht 4y ago
  Same as on Android: 0
askafriend 4y ago
You’re giving away your age with this comment. Of course it has caused chaos on desktop platforms, especially Windows in the early 2000s, late 90s. Since that era, it’s slowly dug itself out of that hole.
- standardUser 4y ago
  I was there. It was not chaos.
  - nicce 4y ago
    Why anti-virus engines used to be multi billion business?
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      because they were not integrated in the operating system [1] and/or the OS were not sandboxed. Also, app stores did not exist, app stores do scan software for malwares, they are actually antiviruses on the cloud. but it's an opaque anti virus, not under the user's control, apps could be rejected for whatever reason, so today chaos is only hidden under the rug, but it's actually worse then it was before. Nobody back then said: "my grandfather should not use the computer, he's in danger", also because if someone owned a computer back then they probably knew how to operate it, today that's not true anymore by a large margin. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/comprehensive-security https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/comprehensive-securi...
      - nicce 4y ago
        My comment was a bit ironic and maybe low quality in that sense. They wouldn't be needed if there weren't malware chaos in the first hand. So people were willing to pay for removing malware and keeping their computers safe because the threat was real and common. It is true that there is still a big chaos, but it is hidden under the rug.
  - TheHappyOddish 4y ago
andruby 4y ago
> hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms I beg to differ. How many windows machines were infected in the early 2000's? Would bot-nets exist if Windows had a strict app store back then? Now: I will agree that freedom to install any software on desktops has been wonderful, and I hope it remains, but I wouldn't say it hasn't caused chaos.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > How many windows machines were infected in the early 2000's? Yeah, that's a very bad analogy, it wasn't about side loading, even assuming that MS was able to vet every application out there, which nobody was technologically or had the resources to or wanted to, the infrastructure wasn't there, the OS security was worse than today and based on different assumptions entirely, the responsibility is still in the hands of the user, and, most of all, with good reason users pushed back on the all TPM/Trusted Computing thing. So they did not want that feature and voted with their money, until they could not vote anymore, because smartphone ruined it for everyone except Google and Apple. edit: besides (obviously) RMS [1] being right and opposing to TC/TPM, this BBC article from 2005 [2] summarizes what even users there were not particularly tech savy thought about the topic A couple of significant quotes computing base is also used to make digital rights management systems more secure, this will give content providers a lot more control over what we can do with music, movies and books that we have bought from them We need to ensure that trusted computing remains under the control of the users and is not used to take away the freedoms we enjoy today [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html [2] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4360793.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4360793.stm
- realusername 4y ago
  Windows had absolutely ZERO security at the time though, appstore or not you could just go into the System32 directory and delete everything. I don't see how any appstore would have solved that, malware would have spread equally with such a poor security model.
- jmull 4y ago
  Why are people bring up the early '00s? This seems too obvious to have to mention, but I guess I do: the comp for iOS with side-loading isn't Windows 98, it's MacOS in 2023.
throwaway290 4y ago
Many of us may not realize it here, but desktop is super niche compared to mobile... (edit: if you consider worldwide)
- asadotzler 4y ago
  Not really, it's about 50/50 plus or minus 10 depending on which geography of income level you look at.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    I doubt it, most people I know rarely use laptops except for work related purposes... keep in mind we are talking about people not in tech (yes I know hard to imagine that is most people on the planet) If you look at traffic stats by OS, remember they don't show that most traffic comes disproportionately from a minority of tech users and bots.

by jmull 4y ago

Having "side loading" -- also known as regular app installation on non-phone platforms -- hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms or android. No reason to think it will on iOS either.

wmf 4y ago

A company can get taken down by a .pdf.scr file on Windows.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jmull 4y ago
As if anyone is suggesting iOS adopt the Windows 95 security model.
- tclancy 4y ago
  What people are suggesting is giving an entire new unsupervised point of entry and one with a lot of permissions is opening up unsuspecting users to these kinds of problems.
vinyl7 4y ago
Does apple throw a .pdf.scr at every app during validation?
layer8 4y ago
And iOS could by an iMessage [0]. OS bugs are OS bugs. On Windows, non-administrator accounts and GPO restrictions are the way to go, in an enterprise environment. [0] https://citizenlab.ca/2021/09/forcedentry-nso-group-imessage-zero-click-exploit-captured-in-the-wild/ https://citizenlab.ca/2021/09/forcedentry-nso-group-imessage...
m463 4y ago
On the other hand, you can install 3rd party firewalls, virus scanners and more on windows. That also means you can install programs to know what microsoft is doing with your comptuer, and protect yourself. Currently there is no way on ios to know what an app is really doing, and what it is sending where.

auguzanellato 4y ago

It caused more malware to spread for sure.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

ChicagoBoy11 4y ago

Wait... hasn't in? How many examples do you have of people dealing with ransomware on their non-jailbroken iPhone?

thiht 4y ago
Same as on Android: 0

askafriend 4y ago

You’re giving away your age with this comment. Of course it has caused chaos on desktop platforms, especially Windows in the early 2000s, late 90s. Since that era, it’s slowly dug itself out of that hole.

standardUser 4y ago
I was there. It was not chaos.
- nicce 4y ago
  Why anti-virus engines used to be multi billion business?
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    because they were not integrated in the operating system [1] and/or the OS were not sandboxed. Also, app stores did not exist, app stores do scan software for malwares, they are actually antiviruses on the cloud. but it's an opaque anti virus, not under the user's control, apps could be rejected for whatever reason, so today chaos is only hidden under the rug, but it's actually worse then it was before. Nobody back then said: "my grandfather should not use the computer, he's in danger", also because if someone owned a computer back then they probably knew how to operate it, today that's not true anymore by a large margin. [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/comprehensive-security https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/comprehensive-securi...
    - nicce 4y ago
      My comment was a bit ironic and maybe low quality in that sense. They wouldn't be needed if there weren't malware chaos in the first hand. So people were willing to pay for removing malware and keeping their computers safe because the threat was real and common. It is true that there is still a big chaos, but it is hidden under the rug.
- TheHappyOddish 4y ago

andruby 4y ago

> hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms I beg to differ. How many windows machines were infected in the early 2000's? Would bot-nets exist if Windows had a strict app store back then? Now: I will agree that freedom to install any software on desktops has been wonderful, and I hope it remains, but I wouldn't say it hasn't caused chaos.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> How many windows machines were infected in the early 2000's? Yeah, that's a very bad analogy, it wasn't about side loading, even assuming that MS was able to vet every application out there, which nobody was technologically or had the resources to or wanted to, the infrastructure wasn't there, the OS security was worse than today and based on different assumptions entirely, the responsibility is still in the hands of the user, and, most of all, with good reason users pushed back on the all TPM/Trusted Computing thing. So they did not want that feature and voted with their money, until they could not vote anymore, because smartphone ruined it for everyone except Google and Apple. edit: besides (obviously) RMS [1] being right and opposing to TC/TPM, this BBC article from 2005 [2] summarizes what even users there were not particularly tech savy thought about the topic A couple of significant quotes computing base is also used to make digital rights management systems more secure, this will give content providers a lot more control over what we can do with music, movies and books that we have bought from them We need to ensure that trusted computing remains under the control of the users and is not used to take away the freedoms we enjoy today [1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html [2] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4360793.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4360793.stm
realusername 4y ago
Windows had absolutely ZERO security at the time though, appstore or not you could just go into the System32 directory and delete everything. I don't see how any appstore would have solved that, malware would have spread equally with such a poor security model.
jmull 4y ago
Why are people bring up the early '00s? This seems too obvious to have to mention, but I guess I do: the comp for iOS with side-loading isn't Windows 98, it's MacOS in 2023.

throwaway290 4y ago

Many of us may not realize it here, but desktop is super niche compared to mobile... (edit: if you consider worldwide)

asadotzler 4y ago
Not really, it's about 50/50 plus or minus 10 depending on which geography of income level you look at.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  I doubt it, most people I know rarely use laptops except for work related purposes... keep in mind we are talking about people not in tech (yes I know hard to imagine that is most people on the planet) If you look at traffic stats by OS, remember they don't show that most traffic comes disproportionately from a minority of tech users and bots.