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If you’re presenting this big article with an attention getting headline, in the middle of this big debate that’s filled with misinformation and rhetoric reachi

If you’re presenting this big article with an attention getting headline, in the middle of this big debate that’s filled with misinformation and rhetoric reaching fantastical heights about “forced birth for cheap child labor,” it is part of that ongoing trash fire, it is very likely to feed that misinformation, and it is unlikely to become a targeted intervention that addresses the actual problems. I could say the same about some Jesse Singal articles in the Atlantic, whose text in isolation might be perfectly defensible treatments of the issues around detransitioning, but mostly serve as excuses for narrow minded people to confirm their biases and build new ones.

danShumway 3y ago
Okay, fair, that is a critique that I do somewhat agree with. At the same time, I'm looking at the surrounding context here on HN, and the majority of weird comments I'm seeing here are not saying, "the broader issues being explored here are part of a larger debate that's often mis-characterized" -- they're saying "this kind of labor is good actually." For sure, if we talk about a broader debate, there is a real risk of conversations about child labor forcing kids out of what would be beneficial activities because of reactionary responses. And for sure, that's something people should be cautious about during coverage. But there are a number of comments here that are kind of staggering to me to read and that really don't look like they're defending summer jobs of the kind that are mentioned in your article, and so maybe better I think is to point out that what's happening in this article should not be lumped together into a debate about summer jobs. It should be treated as an entirely separate debate and there should be clearer lines drawn there. I mean, you bring up detransitioning, but even within trans communities themselves I don't think best way to handle that kind of thing is pretending that detransitioners don't exist, it's to point out that caring for them and protecting them is something that needs to happen in addition to caring for trans kids. And that's something that the actual trans community (at least, the specific parts I'm familiar with) is honestly somewhat decent at, although it could always be better. There's a pushback against the combining of detransitioners into a singular narrative used to oppress other people, but (I think most trans people would agree) that detransitioners are still valid and should be listened to and cared for. The narrative is not an excuse to stop caring about them.

danShumway 3y ago

Okay, fair, that is a critique that I do somewhat agree with. At the same time, I'm looking at the surrounding context here on HN, and the majority of weird comments I'm seeing here are not saying, "the broader issues being explored here are part of a larger debate that's often mis-characterized" -- they're saying "this kind of labor is good actually." For sure, if we talk about a broader debate, there is a real risk of conversations about child labor forcing kids out of what would be beneficial activities because of reactionary responses. And for sure, that's something people should be cautious about during coverage. But there are a number of comments here that are kind of staggering to me to read and that really don't look like they're defending summer jobs of the kind that are mentioned in your article, and so maybe better I think is to point out that what's happening in this article should not be lumped together into a debate about summer jobs. It should be treated as an entirely separate debate and there should be clearer lines drawn there. I mean, you bring up detransitioning, but even within trans communities themselves I don't think best way to handle that kind of thing is pretending that detransitioners don't exist, it's to point out that caring for them and protecting them is something that needs to happen in addition to caring for trans kids. And that's something that the actual trans community (at least, the specific parts I'm familiar with) is honestly somewhat decent at, although it could always be better. There's a pushback against the combining of detransitioners into a singular narrative used to oppress other people, but (I think most trans people would agree) that detransitioners are still valid and should be listened to and cared for. The narrative is not an excuse to stop caring about them.